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ATF no knock warrant
- Thread starter Southalabama
- Start date
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While I fail to understand the necessity of a no knock warrant at 6:00AM, I have to point out that many of the Feds involved in these raids are honorable men and women who are strong supporters of 2A and were doing their job. They may not like doing some of the policies they are directed to enforce, but in this case the search warrant was legal and they would probably lose their employment if they refused to perform their assigned duties.
Some of their political appointee bosses, who are looking for promotions and additional power, aren't necessarily honorable and they are often the persons making the final go/no go and setting standing policy decisions with the support of the political leadership of our nation.
I don't like having to get approval from the government to purchase a firearm, but I am sure I don't want to make it easier for the violent nut cases to arm themselves either. Just my opinion.
Some of their political appointee bosses, who are looking for promotions and additional power, aren't necessarily honorable and they are often the persons making the final go/no go and setting standing policy decisions with the support of the political leadership of our nation.
I don't like having to get approval from the government to purchase a firearm, but I am sure I don't want to make it easier for the violent nut cases to arm themselves either. Just my opinion.
I don't want to be that guy but Feds are gun grabbers regardless of how they feel about the 2A. How can you say someone is a strong supporter of the 2A then handwave the infringing of the 2A.
"A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."
It doesn't matter how the boot stomping on your neck and infringing your rights feels, it's still the boot stepping on your neck and infringing on your rights.
What if the state in all its benevolence deems you a violent nut case? How about those that peacefully protest the government are they "violent nut cases?"
I'll admit I'm idealistic when it comes to the 2A but by accepting these little infringements you already lose the spirit. How can you strip basic rights away from citizens? How can you say that the same people stepping on the Constitution and the Bill of Rights with their bloody boots are actually champions of the same?
It serves no purpose to discuss the character of the men and women that enforce gun control, regardless of who they are and how they feel they have made the conscious decision to be the boot on your neck.
FNHman
Marksman
How would one know anything about the agents invovled unless one was in direct contact with these people? Do you personally know anyone involved?
I think we may have found our local boot licker.
ABlaster
Marksman
This case just doesn’t get my 2A rage going. By all accounts this guy was arming bad guys, which no one here wants, they serve a warrant, he shoots an agent, they return fire. No other family members were hit and no pets died.
I get the general angst associated with the ATF on a gun forum, but this isn’t the case for me.
Yes, they could have picked him up elsewhere. So what? You start putting guns out there irresponsibly and I don’t see you as a patriot exercising your rights any more, nor do I see you as a dude that sells a few guns and accidentally sold one to someone who lied about their prohibited status.
Sometimes in these posts I read a hint of “that could be any of us” between the lines (or sometimes spelled out), but this isn’t one of those cases either as far as I can tell.
I get the general angst associated with the ATF on a gun forum, but this isn’t the case for me.
Yes, they could have picked him up elsewhere. So what? You start putting guns out there irresponsibly and I don’t see you as a patriot exercising your rights any more, nor do I see you as a dude that sells a few guns and accidentally sold one to someone who lied about their prohibited status.
Sometimes in these posts I read a hint of “that could be any of us” between the lines (or sometimes spelled out), but this isn’t one of those cases either as far as I can tell.
Roaster's Gallery
Master
I wonder if he was sending guns all over the country, being in charge of an airport, he may have been up to some bad acting.
ABlaster
Marksman
Could be. He certainly had the opportunity to. Imagine if he got radicalized the damage he could do with his access to planes.
Snake-Eyes
Master
Wait a sec. So, even though he never got the chance to stand trial and actually be convicted of a crime, the new flavor of this thread is to somehow justify his no-knock execution by guessing at what he did or could’ve done?
He was an airport director living in a nice house. He bought and sold firearms.
The BATFECES had concerns about paperwork and purchase history.
Yeah, a no-knock execution sounds legit. *eye roll*
Wtf.
He was an airport director living in a nice house. He bought and sold firearms.
The BATFECES had concerns about paperwork and purchase history.
Yeah, a no-knock execution sounds legit. *eye roll*
Wtf.
ABlaster
Marksman
Putting guns in the hands of bad actors is not the same as us buying and selling firearms. If that’s really the way you look at his activity, then your stance is understandable. Just a guy doing a few sales ending up dead would raise eyebrows anywhere. I see him as a more sinister actor than that, and I suppose that’s the disconnect in opinions.
sloporsche
Marksman
rationally said
Idiot? Maybe...
Or maybe he was looking to invoke Bruen in a test case re: the "text history, and tradition" of requiring FFLs under the Second Amendment. My pocket Constitution seems to be missing that page, if that was the case.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't it the GCA of 1968 that instituted the FFL requirement (EDIT: Corrected myself. GCA of 1968 imposed FFLs for intrastate sellers, whereas the FFA of 1938 imposed them for interstate and foreign sellers; see link below) AND that prohibited illegal aliens from purchasing or possessing firearms? And a judge JUST RULED (due to Bruen's "text, history, and tradition"?) the illegal alien firearm prohibition UNCONSTITUTIONAL? (second link below) SO...
https://www.americanbar.org/groups/...docs/federal-firearms-licensing--an-overview/
https://cis.org/Arthur/District-Cou...Alien-Cannot-Be-Prosecuted-Possessing-Firearm
Meanwhile, ILLEGAL INVADERS at our border ASSAULT OUR MILITARY PERSONNEL, and when was the last time you heard about one of THEM being shot and killed? So you may be right: illegal invaders are apparently not "idiots who need shooting", but WE certainly are seen as such!
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FNHman
Marksman
Well make up your mind! If you hate people putting guns out there irresponsibly then you have to by default also hate the ATF correct? Do you not know that the ATF has lost/sold/given more guns to criminals than any citizen?
Roaster's Gallery
Master
You know, if he had gotten killed for his brake lights being broken, the chorus would have been, "follow the law enforcement commands, and he would still be alive". But, he lived in a "nice house", so he should have gotten a pass.
If he was knowingly selling to criminals, I would agree. But the known "crimes" involving his sales were the mere possession of said firearms by the buyers, i.e., that some one HAD the firearms he sold. Well, I would HOPE someone had them! AND REMEMBER:
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/judge-rules-illegal-immigrants-can-own-and-carry-guns/vi-BB1kmqHn
And note that NO ONE WAS CHARGED with providing the firearm to the illegal alien, NOR WAS HE CHARGED WITH VIOLATING ILLINOIS' FOID CARD REQUIREMENT!
Anyway, don't forget to run background checks on your private sales, lest they find someone merely in possession of one of your old firearms and some weed (CONGRATULATIONS! You just SOLD to a "CRIMINAL", even if it was "medical marijuana"!). And don't forget: the person you sold to may sell it yet again, so... they'll still show up at your house first.
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ABlaster
Marksman
Snake-Eyes
Master
The 0600 no-knock wasn’t necessary.
It got an agent shot, and it got the suspect killed.
The post-execution “justification” that he was ‘ACCUSED of bad things so he deserved it’ is a disgustingly disappointing stance amongst supposedly strong Constitutional supporters.
If he never lives to see trial, he died an innocent man, shot to death by over-zealous LEO who absolutely should’ve advocated for a better way.
But hey, none of us could ever possibly be ACCUSED of crimes bad enough to “justify” a no-knock execution by LEO just doing their jobs, right?
Wake up, people.
From what information I've seen available so far, I think you're making assumptions that he sold firearms to bad actors. Six guns ended up in the commission of a crime, that's all we know.
Guns are sold legitimately/legally every day and those same guns end up in the commission of a crime, that fact alone doesn't make the seller guilty.
Now that the seller is dead, it's a grave injustice to him and his family to suggest he was acting criminally without rock solid, infallible, concrete evidence since he won't ever be able to defend himself.
Bowhntr6pt
Master
This is what I meant in another thread about gun boards and having meaningful conversations... there are, or will be, plenty of "hey, would you look at that" cases to poke at Fed agencies... this sure as hell isn't one of them.
Lord knows how many guns this turd put in the hands of the wrong people... this guy's actions are EXACTLY why we are seeing more restrictive gun laws introduced.
There are hills to die on... this isn't one of them.
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So you're willing to assume the guy is guilty of knowingly selling 6 guns to people that aren't legally able to buy guns out of 142 that he bought/sold that at one point ended up in the commission of a crime?
No due process, no trial discovery, apparently not even enough evidence for the Attorney to request an arrest warrant at the same time as the search warrant, nothing concrete... just 'this turd' as a moniker for the guy and now you made the leap to suggest this guy is the reason we have restrictive gun laws?
Just wow...
Fun fact, in 2023 more than 404,024 firearms were used in the commission of a crime. Every single one of them was legally sold at one point in their history.
25,904 of those firearms used in a crime were traced back to a Government Entity, Law Enforcement Agency or Military.
ATF Report
I would suggest those agencies contribute more to our 'restrictive gun laws' than this guy's 6 guns.
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