I don't want to be that guy but Feds are gun grabbers regardless of how they feel about the 2A. How can you say someone is a strong supporter of the 2A then handwave the infringing of the 2A.many of the Feds involved in these raids are honorable men and women who are strong supporters of 2A and were doing their job.
What if the state in all its benevolence deems you a violent nut case? How about those that peacefully protest the government are they "violent nut cases?"I don't like having to get approval from the government to purchase a firearm, but I am sure I don't want to make it easier for the violent nut cases to arm themselves either. Just my opinion.
How would one know anything about the agents invovled unless one was in direct contact with these people? Do you personally know anyone involved?many of the Feds involved in these raids are honorable men and women who are strong supporters of 2A and were doing their job.
Could be. He certainly had the opportunity to. Imagine if he got radicalized the damage he could do with his access to planes.I wonder if he was sending guns all over the country, being in charge of an airport, he may have been up to some bad acting.
rationally saidPutting guns in the hands of bad actors is not the same as us buying and selling firearms. If that’s really the way you look at his activity, then your stance is understandable. Just a guy doing a few sales ending up dead would raise eyebrows anywhere. I see him as a more sinister actor than that, and I suppose that’s the disconnect in opinions.
Idiot? Maybe...The guy was an idiot. But a hard slap on the wrist. Is what was needed when he started acting like a dealer. The ATF needs to go after real criminals. The way they handle this. They look as dum as the man that died.
Well make up your mind! If you hate people putting guns out there irresponsibly then you have to by default also hate the ATF correct? Do you not know that the ATF has lost/sold/given more guns to criminals than any citizen?You start putting guns out there irresponsibly and I don’t see you as a patriot exercising your rights any more, nor do I see you as a dude that sells a few guns
If he was knowingly selling to criminals, I would agree. But the known "crimes" involving his sales were the mere possession of said firearms by the buyers, i.e., that some one HAD the firearms he sold. Well, I would HOPE someone had them! AND REMEMBER:Putting guns in the hands of bad actors is not the same as us buying and selling firearms. If that’s really the way you look at his activity, then your stance is understandable. Just a guy doing a few sales ending up dead would raise eyebrows anywhere. I see him as a more sinister actor than that, and I suppose that’s the disconnect in opinions.
The answer (to violent crime, at least):As a current citizen, I have no mixed feelings about the number of federal agents.
I’d cut every law enforcement agency in existence by 80%, and not replace them.
If modern law enforcement wasn’t so focused on trying to be involved in every crime, they might actually be more productive.
80% (probably higher) of the police in this country shouldn’t be. We don’t need more police, we need less.
Considering that law enforcement as a whole commits crimes at nearly twice the rate of concealed carry holding citizens, it’s pretty hard to argue with who the “good guys” are.
But you did it first!Well make up your mind! If you hate people putting guns out there irresponsibly then you have to by default also hate the ATF correct? Do you not know that the ATF has lost/sold/given more guns to criminals than any citizen?
Putting guns in the hands of bad actors is not the same as us buying and selling firearms. If that’s really the way you look at his activity, then your stance is understandable. Just a guy doing a few sales ending up dead would raise eyebrows anywhere. I see him as a more sinister actor than that, and I suppose that’s the disconnect in opinions.
From what information I've seen available so far, I think you're making assumptions that he sold firearms to bad actors. Six guns ended up in the commission of a crime, that's all we know.Putting guns in the hands of bad actors is not the same as us buying and selling firearms. If that’s really the way you look at his activity, then your stance is understandable. Just a guy doing a few sales ending up dead would raise eyebrows anywhere. I see him as a more sinister actor than that, and I suppose that’s the disconnect in opinions.
This case just doesn’t get my 2A rage going. By all accounts this guy was arming bad guys, which no one here wants, they serve a warrant, he shoots an agent, they return fire. No other family members were hit and no pets died.
I get the general angst associated with the ATF on a gun forum, but this isn’t the case for me.
Yes, they could have picked him up elsewhere. So what? You start putting guns out there irresponsibly and I don’t see you as a patriot exercising your rights any more, nor do I see you as a dude that sells a few guns and accidentally sold one to someone who lied about their prohibited status.
Sometimes in these posts I read a hint of “that could be any of us” between the lines (or sometimes spelled out), but this isn’t one of those cases either as far as I can tell.
So you're willing to assume the guy is guilty of knowingly selling 6 guns to people that aren't legally able to buy guns out of 142 that he bought/sold that at one point ended up in the commission of a crime?This is what I meant in another thread about gun boards and having meaningful conversations... there are, or will be, plenty of "hey, would you look at that" cases to poke at Fed agencies... this sure as hell isn't one of them.
Lord knows how many guns this turd put in the hands of the wrong people... this guy's actions are EXACTLY why we are seeing more restrictive gun laws introduced.
There are hills to die on... this isn't one of them.