ATF no knock warrant

[SLTW]

Ehhh…it’s the ATF. You guys can play mental gymnastics games all you want with whether or not the exec was a good or bad dude. The ATFs existence, ability to investigate, get a warrant, and then kill a dude in his home is rotten to its core.

if you believe anything in that warrant, I have a bridge in Baltimore for sale.

 

[Rebel_Rider1969]

Shut down the AFT. Transfer all of them to the IRS. They would fit right in.

 

[Longtooth]

Shut down the AFT. Transfer all of them to the IRS. They would fit right in.

Neither one should have armed agents...

 

[ABlaster]

As a former fed, I have mixed feelings about the number of sworn federal agents.

Some agencies oversee some really complicated investigations that require specialists to conduct. The argument could be made those investigations could be performed by non-sworn staff, but if the case requires field work or interviews with suspects, those tasks are better done by sworn personnel. The counter argument is to have all of the satellite agencies become FBI agents and then have the FBI have divisions that cover the previous agencies investigations, but then you have your sworn personnel not under the command of the agency that has the specialty unless the FBI is also going to absorb all of the support staff of the previous agency, which would be a scary consolidation of power for the FBI.

On top of that, each federal agency has sworn investigators that perform internal affairs functions (Office of Inspector General), which have to be agency-specific because they all have their own rules.

 

[chef_josh]

As a current citizen, I have no mixed feelings about the number of federal agents.

I’d cut every law enforcement agency in existence by 80%, and not replace them.

If modern law enforcement wasn’t so focused on trying to be involved in every crime, they might actually be more productive.

80% (probably higher) of the police in this country shouldn’t be. We don’t need more police, we need less.

Considering that law enforcement as a whole commits crimes at nearly twice the rate of concealed carry holding citizens, it’s pretty hard to argue with who the “good guys” are.

 

[MarkJ]

This no knock warrant for this suspect was completely reckless. This guy was an Executive Director at an airport, the ATF could have picked him up at work where he couldn't carry a gun and then went back to his house for the search.

Reckless shooting and the ATF deserves all the all the fallout it gets over this incident.

 

[ABlaster]

This no knock warrant for this suspect was completely reckless. This guy was an Executive Director at an airport, the ATF could have picked him up at work where he couldn't carry a gun and then went back to his house for the search.

Reckless shooting and the ATF deserves all the all the fallout it gets over this incident.

Without an arrest warrant they couldn't have picked him up at all, and everything I've read is that they only had a search warrant.

 

[ABlaster]

As a current citizen, I have no mixed feelings about the number of federal agents.

I’d cut every law enforcement agency in existence by 80%, and not replace them.

If modern law enforcement wasn’t so focused on trying to be involved in every crime, they might actually be more productive.

80% (probably higher) of the police in this country shouldn’t be. We don’t need more police, we need less.

Considering that law enforcement as a whole commits crimes at nearly twice the rate of concealed carry holding citizens, it’s pretty hard to argue with who the “good guys” are.

I would actually expect law enforcement to try and be involved in every crime. It's what the job is, and what would they be productive at if not dealing with crime?

Also, I'm familiar with the 2015 study that said LEO's commit more crime that CWP holders, and that one has been found to have shaky numbers. Was there another study?

I also get that we, as people who come on a firearms/gear/mindset forum, are probably more capable of dealing with problems on our own than the vast majority of the general public. If we really reduced the number of LEO's across the board by 80% it would be a pretty epic disaster for the rest of the folks.

 

[MarkJ]

Without an arrest warrant they couldn't have picked him up at all, and everything I've read is that they only had a search warrant.

They had a tracker on his car, they knew where he was. The search could have been conducted between 6:00 AM and 10 PM on March 20. Why not do it when he was at work?

Here is the affidavit

According to the affidavit they had PC to at least detain and question if not arrest him.

Bottom line is the the loss of life could have been avoided...

 

[ABlaster]

Yep, it says right there in the affidavit that they believed they had PC that he was committing crimes, so it really makes me wonder why they didn't just apply for an arrest warrant at the same time.

The only thing I can think is the US Attorney (whose entire future in the organization is based on conviction rates) wanted what was found in the house before giving the go-ahead for the arrest warrant.

 

[fl57caveman]

This no knock warrant for this suspect was completely reckless. This guy was an Executive Director at an airport, the ATF could have picked him up at work where he couldn't carry a gun and then went back to his house for the search.

Reckless shooting and the ATF deserves all the all the fallout it gets over this incident.

it was to instill fear, shock and awe... warning to others

 

[HuckUSN]

They were there for the guy that was killed due to multiple firearms bought and sold that had ended up in the hands of people that committed crimes in US and Canada according to news sources. One agent was wounded when the guy was killed but obviously we don’t know how he was shot.

 

[Timbo229]

Look at all the fake crap that’s been thrown at Trump from before he was even president, they can do anyone of us the same way , just less effort. And now they do this right out in the open no longer hiding it.

 

[JR 442]

Per the warrant, the now deceased individual had purchased around 120 firearms via gunbroker and they were shipped/ transferred to an area FFL.

The firearms were then sold at shows with no paperwork or background checks, as well as sales via text, etc. Further the deceased individual was not an FFL. BATFE states in the paperwork that they made several purchases and recorded others.

Some weapons were subsequentially involved in crimes (out of state) and the traces came back to the local transferring dealer with the now deceased individual as the buyer.

Who knows his motivation, his income was significant.

Perhaps it was thought that an arrest at work could endanger innocent people and that a traffic stop might not provide adequate force if necessary.

Unfortunately we don't know all the facts. Evidentially he was armed.

Basically it seems he was selling for profit and conducting business without an FFL and without the required related paperwork being done.

Another link with the search warrant info at the bottom of the article.

https://www.ammoland.com/2024/03/at...an-stinks-of-excessive-force-by-rogue-agency/

 

[gungruntmarine3rddiv]

What has happened to the Good Old U.S.A.? Gestapo,SS, Unacceptable and Shameful behavior!

 

[MarkJ]

Per the warrant, the now deceased individual had purchased around 120 firearms via gunbroker and they were shipped/ transferred to an area FFL.

The firearms were then sold at shows with no paperwork or background checks, as well as sales via text, etc. Further the deceased individual was not an FFL. BATFE states in the paperwork that they made several purchases and recorded others.

Some weapons were subsequentially involved in crimes (out of state) and the traces came back to the local transferring dealer with the now deceased individual as the buyer.

Who knows his motivation, his income was significant.

Perhaps it was thought that an arrest at work could endanger innocent people and that a traffic stop might not provide adequate force if necessary.

Unfortunately we don't know all the facts. Evidentially he was armed.

Basically it seems he was selling for profit and conducting business without an FFL and without the required related paperwork being done.

Another link with the search warrant info at the bottom of the article.

https://www.ammoland.com/2024/03/at...an-stinks-of-excessive-force-by-rogue-agency/

The guy worked at the airport, no way he had any weapons on him there. He had an executive office, they could have walked right in on him while he was alone and taken him into custody. How would an arrest at the airport endanger innocent people?

What we do know is they had PC and should have arrested the guy in a controlled manner, they had a tracker on his car and could have surprised him anywhere with a shock and awe traffic stop. Instead they ended up killing him in a no-knock, risking the lives of everyone else in the home and added additional risk to their own agents all because he sold guns without the proper paperwork...

This entire operation was reckless and the individual(s) that made the decisions to move this op forward in the manner in which it was executed should be held accountable for the death of the suspect and injuries to their own agent.

 

[Mspurg]

Corrupt politicians in NYC let a felon out of jail 21 times who has a wrap sheet a mile long who ends up killing a cop. No issue there, I guess. But instead track down and kill someone selling some of his privately legally acquired firearms. It clearly shows where the priorities are nowadays. This is NOT what it used to be like. It is only going to get worse in more ways than I would have dreamed of in a 100 years or at least since I joined the JUNIOR NRA back in 1952!!! It is getting surreal!!

 

[Raven]

The guy worked at the airport, no way he had any weapons on him there. He had an executive office, they could have walked right in on him while he was alone and taken him into custody. How would an arrest at the airport endanger innocent people?

What we do know is they had PC and should have arrested the guy in a controlled manner, they had a tracker on his car and could have surprised him anywhere with a shock and awe traffic stop. Instead they ended up killing him in a no-knock, risking the lives of everyone else in the home and added additional risk to their own agents all because he sold guns without the proper paperwork...

This entire operation was reckless and the individual(s) that made the decisions to move this op forward in the manner in which it was executed should be held accountable for the death of the suspect and injuries to their own agent.

I bet this is all a cover story. I bet he had dirt on a Biden or a Clinton or any of them up on the Hill. They don't do all that to those lengths for no good reason, nevermind bad paperwork. They did a "no knock" and shot the last guy that threatened a Biden, even though he was an elderly invalid keyboard warrior. I forget his name already but it was only a month or two ago

 

[5lima30ret]

I'll bet that it wouldn't have gone down that way (or gone down at all) had it been a state agency or local agency investigation. One reason is there is much more oversight on state and local agency use of force investigations. This is based on my career in local and state law enforcement and having been the subject of colonoscopy type investigations into the use of force! (The alphabet federal agencies don't typically don't have this level of oversight!) Just my .02 worth!

 

[ROSS68]

The Clintons got another one! This list is impressive.

God Bless America