Where the Gun Issue is Going

[gunforumfan]

Preparing? Those that disagree can quickly be controlled by disrupting food and water. How many big talkers will be "resisting" when their families have no food.
Talking? You better persuade others that there is a problem. Most people are too wrapped up in their day to day toils to see how vulnerable the situation is here in the US ($17 trillion in debt). Most people can not fathom one trillion. I describe it this way...
" If I could pay you a dollar a second, how long would you have to stand here to receive one million dollars? Over 11 days.
And for one billion? Over 31 years.
And for one trillion? Over 31,700 years."
If the US could pay back it's debt at a rate of a dollar per second it would take 539000 years. Fictitious numbers to any realist. And we add over three billion dollars in more debt per day. Ask them who owns this debt and who is not going to get paid. (See quantitative easing 3, purchase $85 billion per month in bad assets- mortgage back securities from banks and US bonds (more debt)). The US tax payers is buying this bad debt and the US tax payer is never going to get repaid.
Europe and the Euro are good examples to suggest to others what may happen here but there is no precedent to what is taking place in our financial system. "They" are already exhibiting the reality that our currency is worthless. There have been several posts about Biden's million dollar weekend and many others in this forum. Yet most of us and those around us are still toiling for a worthless currency.
Maybe the two billion bullet purchase is taking place now because our government can still exchange a worthless currency for a durable one...bullets. Isn't this the real reason why there is now an ammo shortage? Thousands of people around the country realize the same thing. If you are one of the ones who has already realized this than the reason you better start talking is because we will need big numbers of people to prevent the use of artillery, trained soldiers, tanks and air craft. Time to read a history book.

 

[CCHGN]

History books ain't gonna help this, this is uncharted territory.

My point is, it's useless to sit here and speculate that this is going to happen or that is going to happen, yet the world still spins. We don't know for sure what is going to happen.

Prepare? Sure, I'm a NRA and GOA member, I write my Congressfolks and Representatives. I vote. Heck, I even have a farm and we raise our own food. So what else can I do?

I sure don't think it's a good idea to keep harping this self defeating rhetoric about how we're all doomed. See my signature: FREEDOM COMES FROM THOSE WHO FOUGHT FOR IT.


Imo, this is not where the gun issue is going. We do have a problem with crazy folks shooting up places and some misguided liberals are mistaken about how to deal with it.

 

[oldefoxx]

The best weapon and biggest impact that any one of us brings to the fight is voting and voting wisely. But by organizing the ones that are least qualified to know the outcome of their collective voting effort, America is being soundly defeated in the voting booths. All the poor and impoverished need to hear is that it means more for them if the Democrats get elected, and they arrive at the voting places by the bus full.

Meaning that if you are a Democrat and believe in what America was, you are a contradiction in terms to begin with. The Democrat party decided in the 1950s to take in all comers regardless of their political views and party planks, as long as it meant their candidates got elected. That is when the liberalis, socialists, leftists, and other freeks of nature moved in and began taking over the party. How do I know this? Because I use to read the Life, Look, and Post magazines in circulation back then and one of them covered it.

That was back in the day when you really got the news. But I never considered its eventual impact on me, so I remained a registered Democrat until 2008 when Obama ran for office. I mean I voted against Carter, both Clintons, Gore, and Kerry because I did not like what they stood for, but Obama really got under my skin with his outright lies. We are never going to see the jobs come back, and here he was promising that he would make sure it happened if elected. I remember promises made, and the ones that might be kept go into one jar and the ones that can't be kept and should not have been made eat at my core. I don't forget those. And that was Obama.

I registered as a Republican at that point, only I am really a Conservative. You just have to go with the party that comes closest to what you go with because elections are about who gets the biggest vote. And somehow the leftists have the Electoral College rigged so that there is no question that the wrong party is going to win. That is what needs to be fixed.

 

[oldefoxx]

The idea of talking (or writing about it) is to wake other people up to what is happening. You may have worked it through in your mind, but have they even begun to realize it yet? Just because we are in midair as we fall towards the crashing failure of America does not mean they have really done anything except scan the far horizon and marvel at the view from way up here. This is not a heads up, this is a heads down and see where you are about to plunge, body and soul.

Even the great minds in this area concede there is no way out now. It just goes on and on until it ends. What other countries and nations are doing is pulling away from the dollar as fast and as far as they can manage in the time that is left, but we have no choice but to go on as we are as long as possible before the rest of the world completely turns away from us financially. When our money is no good anywhere else, it will finally be totally obvious that it has no value here either. We have been moving in this direction for decades, and they called the declining value of the dollar "Inflation", meaning a political ploy by politicians to put the blame on others rather than back on themselves. Next stage of super inflation (where the value of the dollar drops in high percentages every hour of every day) has already been named as Hyper-Inflation. Hyper-Inflation will mean price of things will jump through the roof, and you will still buy up everything you possibly can just to get some value out of your money before it is worthless. Obviously Hyper-Inflation will not last long, and after that? Nothing. No money, or no money that is worth anything, and no prospects of a return to normalcy for anybody. You will be back to a barter system that is going to be trampled on by people toting guns. Those that have actually been engineering this breakdown of America know this, which is why they want to get guns out of people's hands. Yoy see, you might do more than rob and shoot your way to a position of survival, you might actually take it into your collective heads to go after the people that did this to you. That's what they are afraid of. That's why Obama is afraid to eat at a dinner unless a food taster has tested his food beforehand. No joke.

 

[CCHGN]

well, imo, there are those who talk and those who do....I wonder how many here are actually prepared to survive with nothing- no power, no gas, no food at the stores, etc.

oldefoxx, so you mean that you were a Democrat, all your life, back to the 50's, until 2008? Just to oppose Obammy? Well, that explains much.

Anyway, you're not saying anything that folks here don't already know. Still, my glass is half full. I've been a conservative all my life and I'm a registered Constitutionalist and I spent 8 yrs in the Marine Corps and I know, as we did, that the issue of following corrupt leaders is on the minds of ALOT of military and LE and Politicos and I have faith that a sufficient amount of them will NOT follow this leader.

 

[outside9]

It is your right to live in fear of your country, your military, your federal law enforcement declaring martial law, taking your guns and shooting you. Still doesn't make it true and I would hate to live my life with fear like that…. I agree there are some who want you not to have guns, but things will never be like Nazi Germany and other countries from past history.

It is almost like some of you are disappointed every day the sky does not fall.

No FEMA camps, no tanks in our streets etc.

 

[oldefoxx]

It is your right to live in fear of your country, your military, your federal law enforcement declaring martial law, taking your guns and shooting you. Still doesn't make it true and I would hate to live my life with fear like that…. I agree there are some who want you not to have guns, but things will never be like Nazi Germany and other countries from past history.

It is almost like some of you are disappointed every day the sky does not fall.

No FEMA camps, no tanks in our streets etc.

They won't be FEMA camps, but temporary confinement behind barbed and razor wire and run by the military. Perhaps it did not come to your attention that there are laws now that allow the military to invade your property, take you and what is yours into confinement, and you have no legal rights from that point on. No warrant, no filed charges, and no legal representation. Who can order this done? A senior bureaucrat. What is your appeal? None. Who does he account to? Nobody. Think on that for a moment.

It is also true that units of the military have been staging what to do when the riots begin, and they will begin in earnest when the food runs out. These practice drills have been. conducted in some major areas so that the civil authority learns how to interact with the military.

The medium age of the military is less than 20 years old. Most of their life they have been taughtT to obey and not think for themselves, and the military capitalizes on that and reenforces it with boot camp training. Now they are armed, depend on the chain of command for everything, and have sworn a personal oath to obey their superiors. You know what the common German defense was after WWII was over? "We were just following orders". Members of our military are taught to do the same thing, and if they disobey, they are in serious trouble. I spent several afternoons pouring over the Uniform Code of Military Justice trying to find a way to deal with a superior that was intent on doing wrong, and there was no way out. Finally I refused to take orders from him any more, and for that I could have been court martialled. Instead, they wrote an unfavorable fitness report against him and demoted him from warrant officer back to E-6, but I lost my job there as well. At least nothing went into my record and I was not demoted. But it was more than a gamble on my part, it was risk it all based on my decision that he was in the wrong.

The military is not going to rebel against civilian leadership, not in our country. We rotate men and officers around every one, two, or three years to prevent that type of unit identification from forming, and stagger the CO and XO assignments so that they are only partnered for one year. Caesar led his Roman Legion for so long that when he decided to march on Rome and take over, they did as they were ordered, even though it was against Roman Law. Ever read the book or see the movie titled "7 Days in May"? If you had, you should know what a military acronym of ECOMCON stands for, and why a General's aide broke ranks and reported his suspicions. What are the chances that that would not happen in real life?

You respect the military man. I do too. But armies are led and fed by one means, and whether you are right or wrong, they are trained to do what they are told.

 

[oldefoxx]

well, imo, there are those who talk and those who do....I wonder how many here are actually prepared to survive with nothing- no power, no gas, no food at the stores, etc.

oldefoxx, so you mean that you were a Democrat, all your life, back to the 50's, until 2008? Just to oppose Obammy? Well, that explains much.

Anyway, you're not saying anything that folks here don't already know. Still, my glass is half full. I've been a conservative all my life and I'm a registered Constitutionalist and I spent 8 yrs in the Marine Corps and I know, as we did, that the issue of following corrupt leaders is on the minds of ALOT of military and LE and Politicos and I have faith that a sufficient amount of them will NOT follow this leader.

I wasn't into politics most of my life. Most elections it was more about whom I was voting against rather than whom I was voting for. It didn't seem to matter which party I was a member of, and the only election I was ever really concerned about is whom was going to become President, not even so much which party he was part of. After decades of seeing the wrong candidate being put up was affiliated with the Democratic party, I decided that I could still be there and vote against the wrong candidate early on. But after Obama and watching and listening to Glenn Beck on Fox News for awhile, I began to see the underlying pattern to what and who is breaking America. Your comment about "not saying anything here that folks don't already know" is totally misguided. People as a rule DON'T know, DON'T care, and just help let it happen anyway. I'm not proud of saying that I was one of those, and because nobody knew about it or cared enough to get into it. that was where I was stuck.

Look at most forums for instance. Two subject areas that are generally set aside just for the weak minded are religion and politics, like neither of this is important or has any real significance in our lives. Do you ever visit a board about religion or politics? I don't, but I am a religious man, and now into politics in the deepest way. So why not? Because people just argue and fight on those boards, and nobody changes their mind or position, so what is the point? Instead, I try to bring bits of it over to the General Topics area just to make some people, maybe like I was, aware that there is a whole organized effort being made to take America down in flames, and they are getting their way right now.

 

[FrankT]

There are FEMA camps already set up and more coming online. No fear here but I will be damned if they will not try to disarm us all then what will the one say that parroted "it can never happen here"?

 

[oldefoxx]

It is your right to live in fear of your country, your military, your federal law enforcement declaring martial law, taking your guns and shooting you. Still doesn't make it true and I would hate to live my life with fear like that…. I agree there are some who want you not to have guns, but things will never be like Nazi Germany and other countries from past history.

Every day you walk through life and never give a thought to the next bad think that could happen that you did not expect. You look at the funny(?) videos that people shoot of themselves or other as they do truly stupid stunts that risk life and limb, and laugh at the stupidity displayed. That would never happen to you, right? But then you try to back out of a parking place and somebody slams into you. That wasn't stupidity, but just bad luck and timing, and it's going to cost you, so nothing to laugh about.

America is going down the tubes and it is for a purpose. Not our purpose, but serves someone else's. They train you to accept the unacceptable, then make the unacceptable so, and it goes on and on. Here are some of the things I find unacceptable:

No Pledge of Allegiance in school or public gatherings
No prayer in any public place except the chambers of Congress
The court ordered release of 30,000 inmates of California's prison population
ObamaCare being something we cannot begin to pay for and are forced to submit to
The members of Congress living under their own special rules and provisions and not subject to the ones they impose on everyone else
Congress members being able to retire at full pay after just one term in office
The Senate skating by with no Budget to limit spending for four years
The whole Stimulus Spending deal when the Democrats had full control
The idea of a staggered income tax, which is just legalized theft of what others have earned to give to those that haven't.
A corrupt welfare system that politicians use to win low level votes
A planned retirement society where people quit earning and turn to living off others via social programs
A government that interferes with all aspects of your life and which becomes more regulatory as it grows in size
A government that is not held accountable for it actions and inactions
A society that does not correct for any of the above

 

[Snow Bird]

olderfoxx Prehaps you should run for congress or senate to express your views. If elected it would do more good than posting on this forum. You are very good at expressing your self in a civil manner and might make a diffrence there. I don't agree with some of your opnions but everyone never does as we all have our own. I do agree with what young people are taught in the military to follow orders BUT more than one countrys millitary has turned aginst there leaders.No one has ever brought up that. What makess anyone think that all of our millitary will follow orders to fire on there fellow americans. In my mind there would be a revolt in our millitary. I do agree our govertment is in the tubes right now but both parties are to blame. Thats a fact. I am going to keep living my life and not live in glume and doom. You may be right on some level about our money but there is a barter system that has been used for years and may come back. I will protect what I have but don't think I will have to kill someone to eat. People can get buy with alot less than they have now. We are alot better off than most of the rest of the world .

 

[CCHGN]

Two subject areas that are generally set aside just for the weak minded are religion and politics,......

The thing is, I don't share your opinions, so what are you going to do, try and beat it into me? Won't work. I'm more hard headed and stubborn as you are. I don't believe that America is "going down in flames", but it is in trouble.. I do believe that alot of military and LE will not obey, if it comes to it. My two sons and several cousins and nephews are in the Army and several relatives are LE and they all say they and a bunch of fellows that will NOT obey. You highly under-estimate this generation. They are strong and have backbone and I'm proud of them. . I DO believe that most folks here know what's wrong with this Country and are doing the right things to bring it back.. I believe that I'm right and you're wrong, so now what? We just have to agree to disagree. No name calling, no personal attack, it is what it is.

Btw, I read Col Cooper....Semper Fi

 

[outside9]

All I can say to some of these comments are WOW! Some of you should be standing on a street corner yelling the world is ending soon...........

 

[CCHGN]

Here are some of the things I find unacceptable:....A society that does not correct for any of the above

Well, you've made a list that YOU disagree with and then blame this society for not making it to your liking. How self centered. The beauty of the Constitution is that society can rule themselves and make their Society the way they want. When politicians get out of line, society demand greivance. Have you not seen the TEA party? The Occupy Wallstreet? The mid term election, the people spoke and voted liberals out and TEA party conservatives in. They took over the House. We are moving in the right direction. We are turning this around. Obamacare is crumbling, Gun Control bills are crumbling. The gun control effort was a house of cards and it's falling. Btw, you can say the PoA anytime, anywhere you want, they DO say prayer before public meetings and you can pray anywhere you want.


This was in todays paper: http://www.theledger.com/article/20130326/NEWS/130329359&tc=email_newsletter

Federal Appeals Court rules in favor of prayer in public....A federal appeals court Tuesday upheld the constitutionality of prayers before meetings of the Lakeland City Commission, rejecting atheists' arguments that the practice promotes Christianity..

 

[oldefoxx]

Americans have fired on Americans in the past, and I am not talking about the Revolutionary or Civil wars, but union and worker strikes. They came up with water cannons and rubber bullets for a reason, which is to try and avoid bloodshed. There was even one campus riot that led to students being killed who were protesting the Vietnam war, and many who opposed the draft burned flags and some moved to Canada until they were granted amnesty. You don't know your history, you are going to put your foot in your mouth.

Everybody that thinks we have a lock on the future certainly does not know the past at all. And my idea that the currency is spiraling out of control is not my idea, it is the idea of people who are deeply steeped in finance and the economy and know it and are prepared to prove it. I've seen their work, heard their arguments, and have checked their facts enough to have no doubt of it myself. Just because they are not here to say it themselves changes nothing. Some are even using the information to help others realize a profit while there is still time to do so. I will do this one more time: Look at one of these videos or articles if you want the straight of it:

http://endofamerica.com/
http://reason.com/reasontv/2013/01/26/why-we-should-applaud-the-coming-collaps
http://dollarcollapse.com/
http://useconomy.about.com/od/criticalssues/p/dollar_collapse.htm
http://useconomy.about.com/od/tradepolicy/gr/collapse-dollar.htm
http://www.nowtheendbegins.com/pages/USA/coming-collapse-of-the-USA.htm
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZJNATeRX2FM&gclid=CI6SjIuGnrYCFVSmPAodnSoAIw
http://www.squidoo.com/americas-coming-collapse
http://www.counterpunch.org/2012/12/03/the-coming-crash-of-america/
http://rense.com/general60/whatthedollarscollapse.htm

http://click.infospace.com/ClickHan...4&mid=9&hash=CC188025850931FE51D2736B5F8FB34B

What I am saying here, is get over the idea that this is just me talking. The facts are there if anybody looks for them, and the answer is, we must be nearing the end because we have carried this farce out farther than any government or nation before us. The only thing that keeps us going for the moment is the lack of an alternative currency, but China is going to solve that problem for the world in short order. Then we will no longer be the World's Reserve Currency, and all that printed money will be only fit to burn or recycle. And when the dollar goes, so does all the change for a dollar, unless it has a high percentage of silver in it. Some are even collecting copper pennies, although copper is worth far less than silver.

I'm not happy about any of this, but you don't spend a career in the military by always looking the other way when something comes up that you don't like. You have to face it and do what you can about it. I'm not one to pretend I didn't see it or don't know what it all means like some people do. And if I see it, I can't ignore it. Others need to know too.

Now if you want to be one of the head-in-the-sand people, that's your privelege. You might impress others with your withdrawal from the facts, but to me you look like an idiot, pardon my bluntness.

 

[wildrider666]

Thank you for bringing this up OLDEFOXX. It seems even in a forum like this people are quick to declare you are jumping to conclusions when evidence is mounting. People better start talking and preparing.
‘We cannot continue to rely only on our military in order to achieve the national security objectives that we’ve set. We’ve gotta (sic) have a civilian national security force that’s just as powerful, just as strong, just as well funded [as the United States military]‘–Candidate Barack Obama, 2008.”
If you value freedom you must regard those in power with distrust. Do not sit idle. Talk to those around you about these issues now no matter how crazy it appears. All it takes for evil men to prevail is for good men to sit idle.

bamalama is building this non mil Army. So if its not Mil its "civilian" it is The Homeland Security Forces, not "We The People". We already know they have full power within the borders where the Mil does not.

 

[oldefoxx]

Well, you've made a list that YOU disagree with and then blame this society for not making it to your liking. How self centered. The beauty of the Constitution is that society can rule themselves and make their Society the way they want. When politicians get out of line, society demand greivance. Have you not seen the TEA party? The Occupy Wallstreet? The mid term election, the people spoke and voted liberals out and TEA party conservatives in. They took over the House. We are moving in the right direction. We are turning this around. Obamacare is crumbling, Gun Control bills are crumbling. The gun control effort was a house of cards and it's falling. Btw, you can say the PoA anytime, anywhere you want, they DO say prayer before public meetings and you can pray anywhere you want.

Certainly I dislike them. They betray the America I was born and raised in. What a cheap potshot on your part. And yes, I have great trouble with a society that has permitted this to happen and learned to accept it as just a matter of course. Also a society that encourages violence in our youth by what we allow them to watch on tv, see in movies, and read in comic books. Even puts weapons in the reach of some of them. How many times a year are we going to hear about some kid carrying a gun to school in his backpack? I at least know where the line should be drawn, but because of weak kneed people that appear not to know, we all stand idly by as things get worse, And worse, And worse yet.

 

[FrankT]

Yawn yawn

 

[oldefoxx]

olderfoxx Prehaps you should run for congress or senate to express your views. If elected it would do more good than posting on this forum. You are very good at expressing your self in a civil manner and might make a diffrence there. I don't agree with some of your opnions but everyone never does as we all have our own. I do agree with what young people are taught in the military to follow orders BUT more than one countrys millitary has turned aginst there leaders.No one has ever brought up that. What makess anyone think that all of our millitary will follow orders to fire on there fellow americans. In my mind there would be a revolt in our millitary. I do agree our govertment is in the tubes right now but both parties are to blame. Thats a fact. I am going to keep living my life and not live in glume and doom. You may be right on some level about our money but there is a barter system that has been used for years and may come back. I will protect what I have but don't think I will have to kill someone to eat. People can get buy with alot less than they have now. We are alot better off than most of the rest of the world .

Our military has never turned against the civilian authority above it, and by keeping them young, drilling them well, and rotating their assignments over a few years, we have created a culture that expects no less from our military youth. The problem now isa, that it is the civilian authority that is untrusted, and we can only expect that the military will stick to its traditions, meaning full military control will be heaped on us when things turn sour.

Military personnel that break ranks are treated as outcasts by others, and they have all been steeped in the comrade in arms philosophy, so don't expect them to come over to your side if you find yourself standing against the civilian government. Besides, in a game of chess, they are mere pawns, the least effective playing pieces. It is what they are equipped with and whom they stand with that make them as effective as they are.

In boot camp, I once heard a Drill Instructor go on about what madness it is that you so fear your seniors that you would run blindly forward up an enemy hill and risk being shot rather than be screamed at by the senior in charge. Yes, that is true madness, isn't it? And we applaud it as heroic. Like the German solders of WWII, I expect the average enlisted man to "do as he is told", because that is what we teach them and make them understand we expect of them.

Me run for office? And do what? Be a party to what is going on in Congress? No way. When Jimmy Carter was elected President, the democrats won enough seats that it was like they were going into Congress with the intent of cleaning house. They took over the Chairman positions of a number of committees, but that seems to be about as far as the cleanup went. Other than the social programs they pushed and the cuts at military pay increases and spending, there was not much to show for their efforts. The best thing I ever heard about Jimmy Carter is that "he makes a great ex-President", this being a reflection on his work with Housing for Humanity.

 

[oldefoxx]

Yawn yawn

Past your bedtime, Frank? Good thing you aren't going to be quizzed on the material covered here. Or are you, say in life's own exam room?