I got a question about high end 1911's vs low end

[Snow Bird]

Ok i'll put my .02 in and as I only own 1 1911 and it is only going to be what I have read. Some of the high end 45 are set up to tight. Tight slides and tight bushings aren't sometimes the answer for a person. A person can buy that high dollar race gun and have it fail because it is just to tight. And in MHO most shooters aren't good enough to shoot them any better than a lower to middle of the range priced gun. I will put my Spring Field up aginst anyones 2 to whetever thousand dollar gun for how tight a group it will shoot.

The only thing it has had done is a Colt hammer and sear put in it because the gunsmith said they were harder and the trigger job would last longer. It also has a extended slide release and long trigger.

I bought it stock 20 something years ago before they were putting out 1911 like they are now with that stuff already in and at a price a person can afford. And not have a 12 lb trigger pull.

This is not a jab at anyone, A high dollar crazy priced gun won't make you a better shot. Kind of like that cuttie pie woman. She looks good when you are out with her but she sure is a bitch to live with and you wish she weren't such high maintance.

 

[donr101395]

At some point you reach a point of diminishing returns for your dollar. For me that point is between $1500-$2000, going bang every time is important, but is not the only thing I want in a 1911. If going bang were the only requirement I could get that with any one of my Glocks. In a higher dollar pistol I expect a better frame to slide fit, better barrel to bushing and barrel hood to breech face fit, less or no MiM parts, a better trigger fit and pull, and a nicer overall finish. Some/Many of those things you don't get until you get in the $2000+ price range, but many of them can be had in the $1000-1500 range on Springfield Armory guns. Notice I didn't say tighter on any of those; better fit doesn't necessarily equate to tighter although it is generally a byproduct of a smoother/better fit. If you don't have tolerance stacking issues because the parts are fit rather than just assembled you can end up with a fairly tight gun that is both smooth and reliable. If it is simply assembled it can be reliable, but generally won't be as smooth unless it's an anomaly of parts magically fitting well together. I can live with some well made MiM parts and a little less hand fitting if I need to in order to stay out of the $2000+ market right now.

 

[Az-Vic]

Don has it pretty much nailed down. In the 1500-2000 dollar range, a guy can get an excellent 1911 that is a cut above the rest as far as fit ,finish and "extras". Within this price range "most" shooters will still not shoot up to the pistols performance potential. Those guys that are dedicated shooters, pistol competitors etc, are generally able to take their skills to a higher level with better equipment, that's where the difference comes into play when you step into the world of an Ed Brown pistol or a Wilson pistol or Baer. These pistols, in the hands of someone that can really shoot, will out perform the factory guns, both low end and upper end, with regularity....that's what they are MADE, to do.Long long ago, when I could actually shoot worth a shit, in 1988 I bought my first high end pistol, a Wilson Super grade, at that time they ran $2675.00, which was a huge chunk out of my butter and egg money, but worth every penny I spent on it.
Now days, as much as I'd love to acquire the likes of a nice Ed Brown piece, I think I could be quite happy with a Springfield TRP.

 

[Dan1612]

Well, we haven't had any drama in a while. So, here we go. Here's what I really think. Wish me me luck. Lol.

If the only 1911 you've ever owned is an entry level gun, your opinion is irrelevant to the subject of the thread. If you think that your foreign made 1911 is the absolute best 1911 ever made, congratulations! Here's your validation, take it to the bank and be happy. Whether you're an old cheapskate, or a poser, as long as you're happy with what you have, that's all that matters. And if you're not happy, pawn it, sell it, trade it, whatever (I do that a lot. Lol).

A fitted 1911 WILL be better than an assembled gun because the 1911 was designed more than a century ago, to be fitted by craftsmen.

In theory, a fitted polymer gun WILL NOT much be better than a fitted one, because it was designed to be assembled.

If you're a half decent shooter, a fitted and therefore inherently more accurate 1911 WILL be more accurate in your hands. Whether you care or not is a different story.

A fitted, fine tuned 1911 WILL be more reliable than an assembled gun. Whether it was designed to run with underpowered foreign ammo is a different story. This has to do with spring rates and slide speeds. Most fitted 1911s come with a list warning that certain ammo will not be reliable in the particular gun. Having said that, I often purposely run the "forbidden" ammo and I've yet to have a problem. This may become a problem as the parts wear, but I'll most likely replace the worn parts as basic maintenance. I'd rather a gun be set to function with defensive powered ammo, that to function with underpowered foreign crap and then choke on defensive ammo because the slide moves too fast for the weak spring to allow the slide the time to turn that hollow point round up the feed ramp and into the chamber.

I'll probably delete this after reading it a couple of times and realizing that I sound like a prick, and I do apologize for that, but ignorance irritates me. To state that a particular thing is no good or that for whatever reason, you don't like it, is ignorant unless you've owned such a thing. Go back and read the original post before ranting and bashing, and keep it on subject.

Having said that, all 1911s on the market fill a particular role for a particular kind of customer and as long as they fulfill said role, then it's a good gun to that customer, and THATS IS ALL that matters.

For 1911s, you DO get what you pay for, if you care to pay for it.

Peace, love and harmony.

P.S. The Springfield TRP is THE best gun under $2k. Period. I don't know anyone who can't afford ONE good gun for protection should they choose to, Springfields are ALWAYS my top recommendation to most.

 

[Az-Vic]

That was an honest, accurate post Dan, no need to delete to my mind? If a guy doesn't have the skill to use a particular expensive and precise tool, for him, one from Harbor Freight will work just as good. Doesn't matter if it's tools, cars, golf clubs or pistols, if a high degree of skill in their use is not in possession of the user, one won't have the ability or intuition to realize a difference?

 

[ChrisC]

If the only 1911 you've ever owned is an entry level gun, your opinion is irrelevant to the subject of the thread.

This is all that need to be said. Ya dont know what ya dont know.

 

[Snow Bird]

Just to stay in the fray, How many rounds do you shoot to have to replace WORN PARTS in your 1911? 15000 plus through mine and no parts replaced since the trigger job? Are you sure you aren't gettin the bad ones in the bunch?

Mine is an entry level gun but because it is made it revelent to the thread. This was about the shoot ability or something like that I think. I wanted to get into the card cutting at jj and he didn't have it for the handguns before I left if he had it at all. Could I cut cards better with a high dollar gun? Don't think so. Will it be purder? Sure. Maybe I just got lucky with mine.

If a person has the extra money to spend for a better blueing job I am happy for you and will tell you how nice it looks. I would love to own a Weatherbie(spell) but a $500 m700sps will most likely shoot as good or better.

 

[Snow Bird]

Chris, Are you trying to convince your wife that that high dollar 45 in the safe was worth the thousands you spent on it.

 

[Dan1612]

How many rounds do you shoot to have to replace WORN PARTS in your 1911?

Much like vehicles, on guns, parts such as springs should be replaced every few thousand rounds, depending on the make and model. The difference is that failure to function could be much more disastrous in a defensive situation.

Could I cut cards better with a high dollar gun? Don't think so...I would love to own a Weatherbie(spell) but a $500 m700sps will most likely shoot as good or better.

But you don't know for sure. Do you? It's all speculation. With all due respect, Sir, I say you put your money where your mouth is and give us a relevant range report on whether you can discern the difference. Your opinion will then go into the informed category, as opposed to where it is now. You just might be surprised, I know I was when I took the leap. BTW, a Weatherby Vanguard S1 can easily be found for right around $500. Great gun right out of the box if my old V2 is any indication. I also don't think SPS's are $500 anymore. Just sayin'

 

[DaBreeze]

I saved enough money on my cheap SA 1911 to enjoy popcorn and a beer for this show.

 

[Champ62]

Good post Dan, I don't have a Wilson or a Bauer and probably never will. But I have a couple of Kimbers and several RIAs and have had several others. I have to say, I like the RIAs, but it's all just personal preference.

"That was an honest, accurate post Dan, no need to delete to my mind? If a guy doesn't have the skill to use a particular expensive and precise tool, for him, one from Harbor Freight will work just as good. Doesn't matter if it's tools, cars, golf clubs or pistols, if a high degree of skill in their use is not in possession of the user, one won't have the ability or intuition to realize a difference?"

If Harbor Freight sold a 1911, I'd try one.

Everyone is different, I love my Toyotas have driven one since 1974 and never had one break. When I was in college I had a chevy that I fixed all of the time, haven't owned a GM car since.

 

[Dan1612]

I saved enough money on my cheap SA 1911 to enjoy popcorn and a beer for this show.

You Sir, have a couple of SWEET Springfields.
This kind of thread is all over the internet, and ALWAYS ends the same, just figured I'd take the filter off for a bit. Funny part is that I haven't even had a cocktail. It'll get real fun right at about 8PM. Stand by...
Lol.

 

[Snow Bird]

As far as the range report, Will you let me shoot your high dollar 45? I would be more than happy to shoot with you sometime. And I am more than happy to bet on a shooting contest some time. Can't do any more than loose a few bucks and I will shoot with my domonate (Right) eye closed.

 

[DaBreeze]

Its pretty simple.... Your money so trade it for whatever you want. Evidently whatever you own means more to you than the money that it replaced.
To each his own.

 

[Snow Bird]

The thing about me is I love to shoot and watch good shooters. Loved to shoot trap and lost a few bucks and enjoyed seeing a good shooter. Hand guns have to be the same. If I get out shot it will only make me try to get better. I loose a few bucks on golf and win a few. Just makes me work harder to out play the person who beat me. Some I can and some I can't.

 

[gendoc]

If Harbor Freight sold a 1911, I'd try one.

so would I !!!

I've owned many, but they were expendable....even the colts and the springs.
nothing is worth what they can be replaced with.

these guys need to be around long enough to own all they come across.

looks, value and brand dont' do justice when needed...

you can't take them below ground with you, and in the future for your family... do you really think they can be bartered for food ?

its come'n.....................:usa:

 

[gonzo]

I agree with dan1612. I think I might just put some monies aside and look into that Springfield trp. I think the subject won't be settled in my head until I put a gun in my hands and settle it there. Not to mention the idea of getting good enough to split is awesome.

 

[ChrisC]

Chris, Are you trying to convince your wife that that high dollar 45 in the safe was worth the thousands you spent on it.

Worth. Very subjective word. Is it worth getting herpes from Katy Perry?

 

[Snow Bird]

It would be worth it to get it from the orgonial Wonder Woman.

 

[DaBreeze]

Wilson's ain't schit compared to this --------> http://cabotgun.com/oak-collection/the-damascus/

$35,000.00 Now that is a poser !