Florida Constitutional Carry

[IronBeard]

As I just said elsewhere:

"If legislators think Floridians are too stupid to understand when either open or concealed carry is most appropriate... HOW IS PERMITLESS CONCEALED CARRY GOING TO FIX THAT?"

Fix stupid, I mean? If the "general population" is that incompetent, maybe we should just keep the permit requirement. i.e.,

"You're too stupid to decide for yourself how to carry, so we're just going to let you carry concealed only, with or without a permit. Because, remember, you're idiots who can't be trusted to make intelligent decisions on your own!"

WHAT?!? Then why are we allowed to carry firearms at all?

Shhh. You're letting the secret to government out; an ignorant, DGAS, and distracted, population. And then there is fear...

I understand what you mean. I am all about Liberty, but yes, based on daily experiences and observations, a huge portion of our society is too stupid to function idependently.

 

[DustyDog]

Shhh. You're letting the secret to government out; an ignorant, DGAS, and distracted, population. And then there is fear...

I understand what you mean. I am all about Liberty, but yes, based on daily experiences and observations, a huge portion of our society is too stupid to function idependently.

Yep... it's a Catch-22 : )

 

[IronBeard]

Yep... it's a Catch-22 : )

IMO, it's worse than any catch 22 I can imagine. Next time you're out and about, just take a step back, and watch how people/society really "function."

Pathetic, IMO. I'll leave it there...

 

[DustyDog]

How about this? How long has open carry of handguns been allowed in Alabama? Best I can tell, about ten years, albeit with a permit requirement up until this year.

Been to Alabama in the last ten years? Did it look like people carrying openly in inappropriate circumstances was an issue? I can recall seeing only one non-law enforcement person carrying openly there during those 10 years. In an Academy, looking for ammo, and, in fact, I didn't even see that as "inappropriate". Regardless, only one... ever. Appears that open-carry is "self-regulating".

 

[DustyDog]

Well, this makes no sense. I think the author is trying to say that, if we remove the permit requirement, things that were already happening under the requirement might also occur after the permit requirement is lifted, so we need to protect our Second Amendment rights by keeping restrictions on them. Oh, and, of course, the usual implication that only Black people are killed by cops.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/d...e-turning-the-2nd-amendment-on-us/ar-AA18CqB6

Regardless, my problem with DeSantis is that he said he will sign them with or without a provision for open carry, providing plausible deniability all around. He should make clear that he will only sign if it includes open carry, thereby putting legislators on the spot, and potentially getting us out from under Janet Reno's THIRTY-SIX YEAR-OLD open carry ban! Anything less is pointless.

 

[IronBeard]

Well, IMO, if you are going to call it "Constitutional Carry" then you should be able to carry whatever you want, however you want. FWIW, I will conceal for reasons I deem appropriate/necessary. Digressing; don't tell us it is Constitutional Carry and then set about infringing on the Constitution in your legislation.

Words matter. Well, they should. Say what you mean, and do what you say. Or, suffer the loss of credibilty/trust. Your call Ron. Oh, and it really hits a nerve when government feels they need to tell me what "Constitutional" is.

 

[Ross7]

Ahhhh... no. Holster policing not the way to go here.

Florida State Rep. Mike Beltran... tried to fix the House bill this week by adding an open-carry amendment. Unfortunately, his amendment could have caused a multitude of problems. In fact, it could have brought down everything.

...it would have required open carriers to use a “level two or greater retention device” holster. This would have made Florida the only state in the country where the government tells gun owners what type of holster they must use, and the penalty for using the wrong holster would have been a felony.

Open Carry Amendment to Florida Permitless Carry Bill Withdrawn After 48 Hours - The Truth About Guns

&#9664Previous Post Next Post▶ By Lee Williams Florida’s quest for full-blown constitutional carry has garnered the attention of the nation’s pro-gun movement and drawn the ire of the gun-ban industry. Twenty-five states have already passed constitutional carry, so Florida could become the...

www.thetruthaboutguns.com

 

[DustyDog]

Ahhhh... no. Holster policing not the way to go here.

Open Carry Amendment to Florida Permitless Carry Bill Withdrawn After 48 Hours - The Truth About Guns

&#9664Previous Post Next Post▶ By Lee Williams Florida’s quest for full-blown constitutional carry has garnered the attention of the nation’s pro-gun movement and drawn the ire of the gun-ban industry. Twenty-five states have already passed constitutional carry, so Florida could become the...

www.thetruthaboutguns.com

Oh, no doubt.

As for that Amendment "bringing down everything"... bringing down what, exactly? Wasn't Florida the first state to institute concealed-carry permits? And that law originally was intended to allow open carry as well, but thanks to Janet Reno, that provision was nixed. At which time (1987) the NRA said that they would let it ride until next session (1988), at which time they would re-visit the open-carry issue.

Since then, half of the states have acknowledged Constitutional Carry, but now... now... Tallahassee announces that they might allow us to... wait for it... carry concealed? Is that what we've waited 36 YEARS for? What a farce. We already have "concealed carry", and who that currently has a permit is going to give it up, since that also gets us out of the three-day wait?

I would rather have a permit that covers open and concealed carry, than permitless concealed carry. These bills will gain us nothing except a guarantee that they will never re-visit this issue again. They will claim to have "given us what we asked for already".

I am within 20 miles of the state lines of two states that allow open carry, and I can guarantee it's not causing problems in either. But Tallahassee... along with the "Florida Sheriff’s Association"... apparently assume we are idiots who can't figure out what's appropriate in any given situation. I'd like to have a talk with them, which might go something like this:

ME: "Why don't you think we should be allowed to open-carry?"

THEM: "Because some people are idiots, and might do stupid stuff."

ME: "So what's your solution?"

THEM: "We're going to let those idiots carry concealed, without a permit!"

ME: "PROBLEM = SOLVED!" (not)

And a question I would have for the "Florida Sheriff’s Association":

"If concealed carry is such a great idea, why don't YOU do it?!?"

 

[tros6t]

Looks like Desantis may sit this one out? His funders, if that is even a word are suggesting 2028. Hope he stays gov till then!

 

[DustyDog]

Looks like Desantis may sit this one out? His funders, if that is even a word are suggesting 2028. Hope he stays gov till then!

WITH ONE CAVEAT.

I just e-mailed Rep. Beltran, and included my above comment re: his Amendment. Here's the e-mail minus the above comment:

Rep. Beltran,

I heard about the "open carry" Amendment you proposed for HB 543, and I appreciate your efforts. I would've had no issues with it, but for the supposed felony-level penalty for carrying in an unapproved holster; no problem with the holster requirement itself, with lesser penalties.

Below I'm including a comment I made re: the current status of the Bills; note that this comment was not directed you, specifically, but was my response to a discussion on your Amendment and other issues. It should be self-explanatory, regardless:

[above comment inserted here]

As mentioned in the above comment, I would MUCH prefer a permit that allowed for open AND concealed carry than permitless CONCEALED-ONLY carry, and WHO IN THEIR RIGHT MIND WOULDN'T? I suspect even the FLORIDA SHERIFF'S ASSOCIATION and thus Senate President Passidomo would agree, since she defers to THEM, as she probably should, given her admission that she is not well-versed in the subject of firearms.

Open-carry is not appropriate in EVERY circumstance, but it is the BEST option in many (I could give examples all day, and I'm sure you could as well), and my experience in both Alabama AND Georgia shows that it is largely SELF-REGULATING. Open carriers in those states MUST primarily be open-carrying only when appropriate (e.g., when NO ONE ELSE IS AROUND), because I've never seen anyone do otherwise.

PLEASE SAVE US. I have already made it clear to Gov. DeSantis that this issue is a deal-breaker and litmus-test for me, and that, sadly, I would never vote for him again if he signs "permitless concealed-carry"... though I WOULD if he VETOES such a Bill absent open carry.

His mistake... or devious plot... not sure which... was saying that he would sign the bill either way... open carry or not... which just seems like a sinister ploy to provide plausible deniability all around Tallahassee. INCLUDE open carry... whether we KEEP the permit requirement or not... or WALK AWAY, since doing otherwise will be a cruel slap in the face which will forever lock us in to the status-quo.

Thanks,

DustyDog

 

[IronBeard]

Just some random thoughts:

No holster would have meant no problem, or was a holster going to be mandatory?

The bill to tack on open carry at the last minute does not appear well planned/written. Either more practice is needed, or maybe the bill was purposely designed to fail while giving the impression rights were being "fought" for?

Florida sheriffs association has no business deciding or opining on people's Constitutional rights. The oath says uphold and defend, not decide what applies and when.

Considering, what I now expect from the sheriff's association: New "safety" requirements dictating the specific steps, and manner in which they will be taken, by anyone carrying a concealed firearm to clearly, immediately, and safely identify themselves as bearing arms while at the same time presenting no threat.

 

[big jon]

I saw someone say if you cant carry it hanging out its not constitutional
? to that I say you cant walk around with no pants either

 

[DustyDog]

I saw someone say if you cant carry it hanging out its not constitutional
? to that I say you cant walk around with no pants either

Which one is the "pants" amendment? : )

 

[DustyDog]

Just some random thoughts:

No holster would have meant no problem, or was a holster going to be mandatory?

The bill to tack on open carry at the last minute does not appear well planned/written, Either more practice is needed, or maybe the bill was purposely designed to fail while giving the impression rights were being "fought" for?

Florida sheriffs association has no business deciding or opining on people's Constitutional rights. The oath says uphold and defend, not decide what applies and when.

Considering, what I now expect from the sheriff's association: New "safety" requirements dictating the specific steps, and manner in which they will be taken, by anyone carrying a concealed firearm to clearly, immediately, and safely identify themselves as bearing arms while at the same time presenting no threat.

The Amendment required a Level II holster for open carry, which may not be a bad idea, but made it a FELONY if you violate that rule?!? NOPE.

The bad planning was making us wait this long for a Bill to make it this far, only for it to be a Bill to give us what we've already had for 36 YEARS: "Permission" to carry concealed only.

And I agree with the Sheriff's Association needing to butt out; they are law enforcement, sworn to uphold the constitution, not the legislative branch. And again, I would like to ask them:

1. Why don't YOU carry concealed, with all it's supposed "advantages"?

2. Which would you rather deal with? Idiots carrying openly? Or idiots carrying concealed?

 

[IronBeard]

The Amendment required a Level II holster for open carry, which may not be a bad idea, but made it a FELONY if you violate that rule?!? NOPE.

The bad planning was making us wait this long for a Bill to make it this far, only for it to be a Bill to give us what we've already had for 36 YEARS: "Permission" to carry concealed only.

And I agree with the Sheriff's Association needing to butt out; they are law enforcement, sworn to uphold the constitution, not the legislative branch. And again, I would like to ask them:

1. Why don't YOU carry concealed, with all it's supposed "advantages"?

2. Which would you rather deal with? Idiots carrying openly? Or idiots carrying concealed?

Unfortunately, enforcing laws and upholding the Constitution are often at odds. Although they should be, it's pretty obvious that not all laws are Constitutional. Consider the never-ending court battles over the first, second, and fourth amendments. But, the law is The Law, and laws will be enforced until, or if, they are proven in a court(s) to be unconstitutional. I suspect that's part of the overall plan, but I'm just like that... Good on anyone that truly tries to do what is Constitutionally right.

 

[Fodderwing]

Permitless carry headed for the Governor's desk.

FL Legislature Passes Permitless Concealed Carry, Bill Headed to Governor's Desk - The Truth About Guns

&#9664Previous Post Next Post▶ PERMITLESS CONCEALED-ONLY CARRY PASSES FLORIDA LEGISLATURE! Permitless Concealed-Only Carry Headed To Governor Ron DeSantis’ Desk! TALLAHASSEE FL – Good news! Permitless Concealed-Only Carry is on its way to Governor Ron DeSantis! The Florida State Senate passed...

www.thetruthaboutguns.com

 

[ammodave]

I have a permit so the implementation date doesn't really affect me but why delay the implementation to 1 July. Shouldn't it start when the Gov. signs the bill?

 

[Fodderwing]

I have a permit so the implementation date doesn't really affect me but why delay the implementation to 1 July. Shouldn't it start when the Gov. signs the bill?

It rarely works that way, usually a delay between signing and effective dates.

 

[FrankT]

I am not gonna read all the government crap so how does it change what I do and that is to carry concealed..will you be able to renew your permit?

 

[seandizzie]

I am not gonna read all the government crap so how does it change what I do and that is to carry concealed..will you be able to renew your permit?

I would assume so as a Florida permit is recognized in nearly 40 states.

I haven’t read it but curious about this too?