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  • IronBeard

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    Glad to see it moving forward. I plan on keeping my "paid" permit for reciprocity, hoping that CC states will come up with a way of offering reciprocity to each other before I have to renew again.
     
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    DustyDog

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    BUT, if it DOESN'T include open carry, it's NOT Constitutional Carry!

    It's like saying "You have freedom of speech, as long as we can't hear you talking". Just call it "permitless concealed-carry" or something, so people aren't led to believe that our rights are no longer being infringed.

    It's a farce, actually. Bait and switch. Florida MIGHT declare "The right to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed, as long as it's a two-finger pistol that can be hidden in your panties." Not worth the wait, actually...
     

    DustyDog

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    Yep. I'm pleasantly surprised this is moving forward while also suspecting it will not come into being for fear of scaring off the tourists. We'll see.
    AHA! See my other comment... it does NOT allow open carry, so it's not actually "Constitutional Carry" anyway.
     

    lakelandmusic

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    BUT, if it DOESN'T include open carry, it's NOT Constitutional Carry!

    It's like saying "You have freedom of speech, as long as we can't hear you talking". Just call it "permitless concealed-carry" or something, so people aren't led to believe that our rights are no longer being infringed.

    It's a farce, actually. Bait and switch. Florida MIGHT declare "The right to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed, as long as it's a two-finger pistol that can be hidden in your panties." Not worth the wait, actually...
    While I think open carry for self defense in public is a bad idea for a couple of reasons, I wholeheartedly agree with the sentiment.
     

    DustyDog

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    While I think open carry for self defense in public is a bad idea for a couple of reasons, I wholeheartedly agree with the sentiment.
    Yep, as long as you define "public".

    The example I always give is, of course I'm not going to open carry in a crowded disco : ) But, how about when I'm shooting prone at my 200 yd. distance while I'm wearing my pistol in a hip holster. I have to leave the property and drive around to access the target from the opposite direction... unless I want to swim. It's on a little island I call "Gator Island", and yes, I had a confirmed sighting out there a couple of years ago!. Which means I then have to switch over to concealed-carry, which for me is a fanny-pack, since I can't stand IWB, in part because I'm maybe 145 lbs : ) All this while I live in the middle of nowhere.

    Or what if you live in... or just near... a little town of 600 mostly law-abiding people, and it's 95 degrees in the shade? So the option would be nice.

    So I just hate to see a big deal made of this, as if we "got what we wanted". All that's actually changing is, we used to have to pay to have our rights infringed upon, and now we'll be able to have them infringed upon free of charge : )
     

    lakelandmusic

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    Yep, as long as you define "public".

    The example I always give is, of course I'm not going to open carry in a crowded disco : ) But, how about when I'm shooting prone at my 200 yd. distance while I'm wearing my pistol in a hip holster. I have to leave the property and drive around to access the target from the opposite direction... unless I want to swim. It's on a little island I call "Gator Island", and yes, I had a confirmed sighting out there a couple of years ago!. Which means I then have to switch over to concealed-carry, which for me is a fanny-pack, since I can't stand IWB, in part because I'm maybe 145 lbs : ) All this while I live in the middle of nowhere.

    Or what if you live in... or just near... a little town of 600 mostly law-abiding people, and it's 95 degrees in the shade? So the option would be nice.

    So I just hate to see a big deal made of this, as if we "got what we wanted". All that's actually changing is, we used to have to pay to have our rights infringed upon, and now we'll be able to have them infringed upon free of charge : )

    Yessir. That's why people should have the option if we are talking constitutional carry. I would just never do it in crowded spaces these days. Imo you put a target on yourself, and don't have the element of surprise and concealment, which is extremely important in a defensive encounter or counter ambush. But anyone who chooses to carry openly for their own reasons should have that right. Back in the early 2000's, when I was in North Carolina with a spanking new purchase permit, the first thing I did was buy a shoulder holster and open carry my Beretta haha
     

    DustyDog

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    With the fanny pack, I have to assume that some others may correctly guess that I'm packing, so I have to be just as aware of my surroundings as if I were open-carrying... but I've realized I should be that in tune with what's going on around me regardless.

    It's actually a good thing to be a little self-conscious. And I thread the strap completely through my belt loops, so that I can't easily be relieved of it... not to mention having a donkey-kick at the ready for anyone who looks like they might try : ) But the majority of people don't notice the fanny pack at all. Then there are the women who see it, and appear to give a knowing smile : )
     

    DustyDog

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    P.S., I know of which I speak. I first got the Florida permit in 1988 in Miami, and was arrested for open-carrying in 1990(?). It was a completely bogus arrest, and I was a fool for not suing. My attorney was a former SWAT officer, and the charges were dismissed, then the state appealed the dismissal... which I've never heard of in a case in which nothing actually happened... or in any case, for that matter... but in the end it was sealed, expunged, etc. Long story...
     

    IronBeard

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    AHA! See my other comment... it does NOT allow open carry, so it's not actually "Constitutional Carry" anyway.
    Yep, I get what you are saying regarding Constitutionality. My point was/is, multiple levels of government across the state have been very hesitant/resistant on Constitutional carry in the past. Based on my interactions, there was concern about tourists ($$$) being scared away by Florida becoming the wild west.:rolleyes: If this passes, I expect some Florida municipalities will immediatley set about expanding "gun free" zones.

    Personally, I'll always conceal to the max extent possible. My rationale is strictly tactical and has nothing to do with anyone's feelings/phobias. x10 when it comes to tourists.
     

    scope0311

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    BUT, if it DOESN'T include open carry, it's NOT Constitutional Carry!

    Open carry is not on the bill to be changed. This bill is simply saying:
    If you meet the requirements for the Concealed Weapons Permit, you may conceal carry a weapon without having obtained the permit.
    It's a 'sound good' bill IMO.
    Requirements didn't change - Open Carry didn't change.

    And yes, if you choose to carry a weapon without a permit - you MUST display ID upon demand from LEO.

    Line: 332
    Section 4. Section 790.013, Florida Statutes, is created to read: 790.013 Carrying of concealed weapons or concealed firearms without a license.—A person who carries a concealed weapon or concealed firearm without a license as authorized under s. 790.01(1)(b): (1)(a) Must carry valid identification at all times when he or she is in actual possession of a concealed weapon or concealed firearm and must display such identification upon demand by a law enforcement officer. (b) A violation of this subsection is a noncriminal violation punishable by a $25 fine. (2) Is subject to s. 790.06(12) in the same manner as a person who is licensed to carry a concealed weapon or concealed firearm.


    Line: 414
    790.053 Open carrying of weapons.— (1) Except as otherwise provided by law and in subsection (2), it is unlawful for any person to openly carry on or about his or her person any firearm or electric weapon or device. It is not a violation of this section for a person who carries a concealed firearm as authorized in s. 790.01(1) to briefly and openly display the firearm to the ordinary sight of another person, unless the firearm is intentionally displayed in an angry or threatening manner, not in necessary self-defense.
     

    IronBeard

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    Open carry is not on the bill to be changed. This bill is simply saying:
    If you meet the requirements for the Concealed Weapons Permit, you may conceal carry a weapon without having obtained the permit.
    It's a 'sound good' bill IMO.
    Requirements didn't change - Open Carry didn't change.

    And yes, if you choose to carry a weapon without a permit - you MUST display ID upon demand from LEO.

    Line: 332
    Section 4. Section 790.013, Florida Statutes, is created to read: 790.013 Carrying of concealed weapons or concealed firearms without a license.—A person who carries a concealed weapon or concealed firearm without a license as authorized under s. 790.01(1)(b): (1)(a) Must carry valid identification at all times when he or she is in actual possession of a concealed weapon or concealed firearm and must display such identification upon demand by a law enforcement officer. (b) A violation of this subsection is a noncriminal violation punishable by a $25 fine. (2) Is subject to s. 790.06(12) in the same manner as a person who is licensed to carry a concealed weapon or concealed firearm.


    Line: 414
    790.053 Open carrying of weapons.— (1) Except as otherwise provided by law and in subsection (2), it is unlawful for any person to openly carry on or about his or her person any firearm or electric weapon or device. It is not a violation of this section for a person who carries a concealed firearm as authorized in s. 790.01(1) to briefly and openly display the firearm to the ordinary sight of another person, unless the firearm is intentionally displayed in an angry or threatening manner, not in necessary self-defense.
    How does the law define "identification" and "upon demand?"
     

    justapilgrim

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    Open carry is not on the bill to be changed. This bill is simply saying:
    If you meet the requirements for the Concealed Weapons Permit, you may conceal carry a weapon without having obtained the permit.
    It's a 'sound good' bill IMO.
    Requirements didn't change - Open Carry didn't change.

    And yes, if you choose to carry a weapon without a permit - you MUST display ID upon demand from LEO.

    Line: 332
    Section 4. Section 790.013, Florida Statutes, is created to read: 790.013 Carrying of concealed weapons or concealed firearms without a license.—A person who carries a concealed weapon or concealed firearm without a license as authorized under s. 790.01(1)(b): (1)(a) Must carry valid identification at all times when he or she is in actual possession of a concealed weapon or concealed firearm and must display such identification upon demand by a law enforcement officer. (b) A violation of this subsection is a noncriminal violation punishable by a $25 fine. (2) Is subject to s. 790.06(12) in the same manner as a person who is licensed to carry a concealed weapon or concealed firearm.


    Line: 414
    790.053 Open carrying of weapons.— (1) Except as otherwise provided by law and in subsection (2), it is unlawful for any person to openly carry on or about his or her person any firearm or electric weapon or device. It is not a violation of this section for a person who carries a concealed firearm as authorized in s. 790.01(1) to briefly and openly display the firearm to the ordinary sight of another person, unless the firearm is intentionally displayed in an angry or threatening manner, not in necessary self-defense.
    Can you please provide the link that provides the Line numbers ? Thanks
     
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