You're gonna want one too!

[Dan1612]

I love this place. Lol.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - now Free

 

[CCHGN]

I love this place. Lol.

Yeah, it's all fun and games until someone gets an eye put out....lol

 

[FUPAGUNT]

I read mall ninja quarterly. I eat lunch in the parking lot of he range and think about shooting. I'll sometimes wear a belt and stick a green banana in the side, then I'll practice drawing in the bathroom mirror.

HAhaha

 

[Dan1612]

Yeah, it's all fun and games until someone gets an eye put out....lol

Just like anything else, isn't it?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - now Free

 

[CCHGN]

Anyway, when I get the two R51, I'll carry both in front, appendix, IWB, one on the right and one on the left and will live happily ever after.

 

[Centermass556]

Okay I'll play...I'm bored

So there is a difference between Double Tap and Controlled Pair...And here it is:

Col Cooper is one of the first people credited with coining the term "double tap". With a double tap you shoot twice from one sight picture.

In a controlled pair, you shoot twice from two sight pictures.

The run down of a double tap would be Draw, acquire, shoot,recoil,shoot, acquire...making it a two sight picture shot

The run down of a controlled pair would be Draw, acquire, shoot, acquire, shot, acquire...making it a three sight picture shot. In fact one technique used to instruct the controlled pair is to have the shooter voice the actions as they are performed so the shooter would say "draw, sight, bang, sight, bang" As you the shooter improves, you get them to say the "mantra" faster as they perform the actions faster.

I think George from I4 does a better job explaining and demonstrating this. I met him when he was doing some work for triple canopy back in late 2007. vastly improved some of my pistol skills. I have no doubt George will forget more about pistol shooting than I will learn....

http://youtu.be/DGAtgqAEnM0

 

[Dan1612]

Okay I'll play...I'm bored
]

That makes perfect sense. Thanks for playing.




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - now Free

 

[Centermass556]

Well I was gonna just let it go by, but I've read the latest issue of "Mall Ninja Quarterly" twice now...Had nothing else to do.

Actually in all honesty...It is sometimes aggravating to see terms and words used interchangeably in a synonym like fashion when they are not. So I figured I would throw in my little of my knowledge to show the difference.

I talk to my therapist all the time about having to be right. But she tells me something she read once online by Abraham Lincoln, "Don't believe everything you read, the internet is fools full of useful knowledge"

 

[Dan1612]

I completely understand where you're coming from.
I like to think that I am not one who HAS to be right, but I do have a couple of kids who do.
One time, one just HAD to tell me how to get to the Dog Track, because she just knew, "she had seen a sign" so she wanted me to go her way. Fully knowing that I used to live a few hundred yards from the Dog Track, she just had to tell me how to get there, just so she could be right. So I finally gave in and followed her directions, 30 minutes of doing circles later, she finally gave in.
Truth is, there are lots of people like that, and being able to identify those in the pursuit of their own righteousness really helps. Truly , I just find it amusing, anywhere I see it, because I realize that they have have no control over their need until they, themselves drive into a dead end. Goodnight gentlemen.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - now Free

 

[CCHGN]

I talk to my therapist all the time about having to be right. But she tells me something she read once online by Abraham Lincoln, "Don't believe everything you read, the internet is fools full of useful knowledge"

well, I guess what they didn't tell you is that when you post on the internet, you're right in there as one of those "fools of useless knowledge".

 

[CCHGN]

I completely understand where you're coming from.
I like to think that I am not one who HAS to be right, Truth is, there are lots of people like that and being able to identify those,,,

well, as long as we've been discussing back and forth, y'all know we've talked about perceptions and how peoples' perceptions are their truth, their reality. And about being civil and respectful. I have NO problem with anyone's opinion, they just need to say IMO, or acknowledge that it's just their perception or opinion and not try to assert it as THE absolute truth and everything else is wrong.

 

[CCHGN]

That makes perfect sense. Thanks for playing.

well, imo, it makes NO sense. That whole idea is on the premise that a shot is made without trying to aquire a sight picture. That is the flaw and simply not true. Do folks shoot without aquiring a sight picture? sure they do, but that's called spraying and praying, like those cops in P'cola. I cringe at that thought.

Like I said, in my( IDPA) world, every shot is a controllled shot, so each and every shot is an attempt to get a sight picture. Sure, it's a given that in rapid fire, it's alot harder to get a sight picture, but not impossible. For myself, it's a matter of knowing my pistol and having a good strong grip and knowing that my pistol comes down( after recoil) to the same place, so it's more of a flash picture, but still, the intent to aquire a sight picture is there. Get that front sight on target.

Believe me, As a SO, I've seen ALOT of unsafe stuff. My job is to follow these folks though the COF and LOOK for unsafe stuff. I've actually seen folks shooting with their eyes closed. I'll stop them right then and there and send them to the RO. But 99.9% of folks are aquiring a sight picture each and every time, whether it's 1 shot, 2 shots 3 shots, whatever.


Imo, there's NO difference between double taps and controlled pairs or whatever else someone tries to presume.

 

[Dan1612]

It's all good folks, it's all good. IMO...

I still don't get the R51, seems a bit hyped. IMO...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - now Free

 

[CCHGN]

It's all good folks, it's all good. IMO...

I still don't get the R51, seems a bit hyped. IMO...

well, imo, if you reverse engineer, it makes good sense. So, what makes a good CCW? A reliable pistol that's concealable and easy to handle( manual of arms). R51-check.

Then, what makes a good, accurate shot?

The ideal shot is where you consistantly hit exactly where you aim, even constantly, as opposed to shooting all over the place because the recoil is so bad. So a pistol and caliber that's easily controlled.

IMO, that's several things:

1.a low center of bore- the higher the center of bore to your hand, the harder the pistol is to control and the more recoil is perceived. The lower the center of bore to your hand, the better to control.

IF you think of how recoil works, the bullet goes out the front and the slide pushes back with equal force. If the COB is lower, the force will be absorbed in your hand, wrist and arm, straight back. The felt recoil is less, making it more controllable. The slide goes straight back and straight forward, your sights are right on target.

Pistols like the Sig, et al, where the COB is 2+", the gun flips up and all over the place, your wrist takes most of the recoil, it's perceived as more, it takes more to recover and get back on target.

I made a comparison yesterday, the COB on my M&P is 1/2", the COB on my high end 1911 is 1 1/2", so my M&P is twice as easy to control( based on that alone).

2. the trigger- it's well known that the trigger effects accuracy as much as anything else in the equation. A single action trigger affords more accruacy than a long pull DA/DAO.


3. the mechanics of the gun. The ideal situation( for accuracy) is that the gun stays absolutely still( and locked up) until the bullet leaves it. why a bolt action is inherently more acurrate than a semi.

So, the R51, by design, has the lowest COB as can be, so even with the +P ammo, it's perceived recoil is alot less( making it alot more controllable). It has a SA trigger, which affords better accuracy. By design, the pistol lock up stays locked up until the bullet leaves the gun. It's slim and concealable and( manual of arms) you simply grip, aim and shoot.


IMO, All the ideal traits of a CCW.

 

[Dan1612]

I get the hype. It could be that all those small differences could add up to make a big difference, or the difference could be imperceptible as 9mm is already mild enough in recoil and in general more than combat accurate.
It's definitely different and exciting, certainly more so than a .380 or 9mm glock. IMO

I like the external safeties, and I like the idea of the single action trigger, though if bet they'll screw it up, just like Sig did with their 238 and 938. So the only real advantage, at least for me would be the external safeties. Is that enough for me? probably not. Make one in 45 and you've got my attention.

Just one man's biased opinion.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - now Free

 

[Centermass556]

......
Like I said, in my( IDPA) world, every shot is a controllled shot, so each and every shot is an attempt to get a sight picture. Sure, it's a given that in rapid fire, it's alot harder to get a sight picture, but not impossible. For myself, it's a matter of knowing my pistol and having a good strong grip and knowing that my pistol comes down( after recoil) to the same place, so it's more of a flash picture, but still, the intent to aquire a sight picture is there. Get that front sight on target.

Believe me, As a SO, I've seen ALOT of unsafe stuff. My job is to follow these folks though the COF and LOOK for unsafe stuff. I've actually seen folks shooting with their eyes closed. I'll stop them right then and there and send them to the RO. But 99.9% of folks are aquiring a sight picture each and every time, whether it's 1 shot, 2 shots 3 shots, whatever.


Imo, there's NO difference between double taps and controlled pairs or whatever else someone tries to presume.

Well I dunno. George knows his stuff. He is regular writer and editor for "airsoft pro", he once sat next to a sky marshal on a plane, and it is rumored he even got to take a picture of the Marine NCO at the white house. And I have no idea what so ever what Triple Canopy is..but sounds like one of the those cool black water type contractor services. you know real operator type stuff...

 

[TennJeep1618]

Gentlemen,

Jokes are all well and good, but let's try not to stray too far from the topic(s) of this thread.

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion and virtually every post on this forum should be considered such: an opinion. I don't like feeling like I need to check this thread every time there is a new post to see if someone crossed a line.

Just a reminder from your friendly, neighborhood rookie moderator. I appreciate your cooperation.

 

[TennJeep1618]

Dang. I didn't mean to put a damper on this thread, I just didn't want it getting out of hand.

 

[Dan1612]

Dang. I didn't mean to put a damper on this thread, I just didn't want it getting out of hand.

I think the dead horse had taken enough of a beating. You went and buried it before it started stinking. I call it good timing.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - now Free

 

[CCHGN]

Yeah, I don't mean no harm, I just call stuff the way I see them. Folks get caught up on terms and such. I'd rather discuss concepts.

Btw, triple canopy, I's in the Phillipines in 1979, at NAS Subic Bay and went to JEST ( jungle environmental survival training) at the Upper Mau camp. Triple canopy is jungle so dense, that a chopper can't land and daylight barely gets in. 4 of us had to fastrope down thru triple canopy and find our way back to base, as part of the JEST. we learned cool stuff like boiling water in bamboo and sleeping off the ground and catching a monkey( to eat) with a gourd tied to a tree( drill a small hole and put fruit in it. they will reach in and get all the fruit and can't get their hand out and they won't let go of the fruit. You just walk up and beat them with a stick, but they will scratch and bite).

Anything else?