Women in Combat

[Ross7]

Another look at that bad idea, for all the good it will do with the politically correct leadership we have.

A recent study, for instance, by Britain’s Tri-Service Review found that mixed-gender combat units have “lower survivability,” a “reduced lethality rate” and reduced deployability. This study, along with countless others done over the last 40 years, demonstrate that combat capabilities are so heavily weighted toward men that the gap cannot be closed. As Marine Corps captain Lauren Serrano put it in a September 2014 article in the Marine Gazette: “Acknowledging that women are different (not just physically) than men is a hard truth that plays an enormous role in this discussion.”

Putting Women in Combat Is an Even Worse Idea Than You’d Think

 

[IronBeard]

I just don't see how we can have one set of gender-neutral standards for all in the military without lowering the current male standards. I've had some exposure to this issue, and most of the women in the services I've dealt with have no desire to be in a combat role. In fact, they are having to seek out enough "volunteers" for current WISR physical fitness tests because the interest is low. In some cases the girls participating in the tests still have no desire to be in combat; they are just taking the tests for the challenge, and because they were asked. Oh, and the AF just extended the post-pregnancy deferment from 6 months to one year. So, I spend thousands, maybe millions, to train you to a level I can use you as an integral part of a team, and I lose you from the moment you discover you're pregnant until a year after delivery. Almost two years.

 

[shootnstarz]

And don't forget the Israeli's experience with this. Medics would spend an inordinate amount of time on a mortally wounded female rather than on a male that had a chance of being saved. Can't legislate human nature as hard as they try.

Rick

 

[JGH]

At my age it's not likely that I will ever be in a combat situation again. But if I did, I would want the biggest, meanest son of a bitch in the world next to me. Not a girl. Not that I have anything against women, hell, I even married a woman. There was an old movie called "The Dirty Dozen". The characters in that movie are the kind of people I would want to be fighting with. Of course, in a civilian not combat life, those people should be locked up.

 

[Brandon_SPC]

Apprently one thing women have been good at in other countries were being snipers.
Lyudmila Mykhailivna Pavlichenko 309 confirmed (axis) kills
Klaudia Kaluginawas apprently had 225 confirmed kills
Roza Georgiyevna Shanina 75 kills looked her name but apprently it said she had 52 confirmed kills.
Nina Pavlovna Petrova 122 confirmed kills
Tatiana Ignatovna Kostyrina more than 125 confirmed kills.

Of the estimated 800,000 women that served in the Red Army during WWll, 2,000 were snipers. Of those snipers, about 500 survived the war. All told, these female Red Army snipers are credited with more than 12,000 kills. Apprently Russia knew how to produce well marksman.

Now there was a 19 year old female Army medic that earned the silver star. Apprently she ran through enemy fire after an IED went off and drug five soldiers to safety. Seems like she demonsrated opposite of what the article presented.

Also an female Lt. Col recieved the bronze star with V device:
“The first IED went off right in front of my vehicle,” McCoy said. She ran her Humvee up and down the road to direct the fire of her troops, leaping out several times to fire her M4 carbine and M9 sidearm to repel the attackers firing automatic weapons and rocket-propelled grenades.The situation kept getting worse and worse,” she said. “That is where training kicks in. You don’t have time to consider everything that is going on. You’re just acting. I really do credit a lot of our training for that and making us prepared to just react in an appropriate way.” Three of the four vehicles were disabled by the ambush. McCoy piled all 11 of her paratroopers into her Humvee and returned to base. Several of the troops had injuries, including concussions and ruptured eardrums, but none were life-threatening.

I can't agree or disagree wether women should be in combat or not because I have never been in theather. I will say this if it is allowed standards shouldn't change what so ever.

Now with Ranger school average washout rate is what like 40-50% for males? I mean woman will washout to. I am sure if the Army keeps allowing women to go to ranger school soon enough one will pass. Kind of like how I think there has been 13 women to graduate Marine SOI school.

http://www.nbcnews.com/id/23547346/ns/us_news-military/t/female-medic-earns-silver-star-afghan-war/ Silver Star recipent

http://www.military.com/daily-news/2013/01/28/female-soldier-recounts-time-under-fire.html
Female Lt. Col recieves bronze star with V device.

http://www.womensoutdoornews.com/2015/03/8-red-army-female-snipers-of-world-war-ii/

 

[Jeb21]

Women are the deadlier of the sexes.

 

[MAXman]

Anyone up for some interesting historical information should check out the soviet sniper programs in world war 2. The ranges are what i found most interesting, the tactics and targets are also neat. Soumi, I think that's his name.... The Finnish sniper is also neat to read about. Be ready for some mosinitis though.

I had a female gunnery sgt give a class once on eo. She said that if you could find a woman who could perform a males first class pft(and there were females that could) then she would garuntee that woman specifically trained for that.
My immidiate thought was"no shit. Find a make that performs a first class pft, I'll bet he trains for it also". That's the main Hangup I feel with women in combat: mindset. Plenty are capable of passing the physical requirements. It's just rather they would want to. Politics and statements have little to no room in the military, IMO. But that doesn't stop them from being present.

If someone wants to go face to face with our countries enemies, I say give them the chance. But with a flak, 4 plates, a Kevlar, ifak, water, mags and ammo, weapon... Not even a full kit but already heavy as hell. If they can perform, and want the shot, I'm all for it.

 

[fl57caveman]

Women are the deadlier of the sexes.

sure enough...


A teacher told her young class to ask their parents for a family story with a moral at the end of it, and to return the next day to tell their stories.

Next it was Barney's turn to tell his story: "My dad told me this story about my Aunt Karen.... Aunt Karen was a flight engineer in the war and her plane got hit. She had to bail out over enemy territory and all she had was a bottle of whisky, a machine gun and a machete."
"Go on," said the teacher, intrigued.
"Aunt Karen drank the whisky on the way down to prepare herself; then she landed right in the middle of a hundred enemy soldiers. She killed seventy of them with the machine gun until she ran out of bullets. Then she killed twenty more with the machete till the blade broke. And then she killed the last ten with her bare hands."
"Good heavens," said the horrified teacher, "What did your father say was the moral of that frightening story?"
"Stay away from Aunt Karen when she's been drinking..."

 

[Famine]

There are roles that women can play in combat and be the equal or better than their male counterpart. All combat is not the same. I am thinking these combat roles are some that would be gender neutral:

Fighter/bomber Pilot
Those that man our Nuke Launch silos
Drone Pilots
Ship command

I am sure there are others

 

[Crazydoc68]

I just don't see how we can have one set of gender-neutral standards for all in the military without lowering the current male standards. I've had some exposure to this issue, and most of the women in the services I've dealt with have no desire to be in a combat role. In fact, they are having to seek out enough "volunteers" for current WISR physical fitness tests because the interest is low. In some cases the girls participating in the tests still have no desire to be in combat; they are just taking the tests for the challenge, and because they were asked. Oh, and the AF just extended the post-pregnancy deferment from 6 months to one year. So, I spend thousands, maybe millions, to train you to a level I can use you as an integral part of a team, and I lose you from the moment you discover you're pregnant until a year after delivery. Almost two years.

The fact is you cannot. They tried to put females into Ranger school. They were all graded on one playing field in all the aspects of the course. They all failed out within the first 3 weeks in phase 1. The fact is that females are built differently then men. Plain and simple.

Doc

And after I had a female medic refuse to get out of a vehicle and help treat patients after we got hit, because her toes were cold, that turned me off to having them with me in combat.

 

[MAXman]

Not trying to argue with you doc, but:

Ranger school isn't the baseline for combat readiness. Plenty of infantry and airborne guys who pass thier respective schools and physical requirements don't make it past the first phase. Just say'n...

 

[Brandon_SPC]

The fact is you cannot. They tried to put females into Ranger school. They were all graded on one playing field in all the aspects of the course. They all failed out within the first 3 weeks in phase 1. The fact is that females are built differently then men. Plain and simple.

Doc

And after I had a female medic refuse to get out of a vehicle and help treat patients after we got hit, because her toes were cold, that turned me off to having them with me in combat.

What was to be expected with Ranger school? it is the first time women have ever been there. Plenty of men wash out every year. Yes the average woman is not built for ranger school just like the average man is not built for ranger school. It is a school for the elite. I say if a man and a woman go toe to toe and the woman does the mans APFT better than the man she goes ahead plain and simple. It is based on that person's character can't judge across the board.

 

[Crazydoc68]

Not trying to argue with you doc, but:

Ranger school isn't the baseline for combat readiness. Plenty of infantry and airborne guys who pass thier respective schools and physical requirements don't make it past the first phase. Just say'n...

Yes, but ranger school is the only place females are held to the male standard. They want to be equals when it suits them. Just my opinion of course.


We have females who love to brag how well they do on a PT test, but their standards are a lot lower, except for sit ups. A female my age has to do 15 push-ups to get her minimum score, I have to do 42. Sit ups are the same across the board. The run again, females have roughly 2-3 minutes longer in each age bracket. Look a females intentions can be god like, however I don't want intentions next to me in combat. If she can truly pull her weight in a line unit then I'm all for having it. However if she can't carry a normal combat load, then she doesn't belong there.

Feelings and intentions are what get people killed in combat.

Doc

 

[MAXman]

I don't think anyone is arguing that female pt standards won't cut it in a line unit.
At least no one here.

 

[JBryan314]

BrandonSPC, are you sure women have passed Marine SOI? I know for a fact none have gotten near passing Ranger School. Last I heard, none had passed SOI either.

The examples of women in combat doing well are the rare exception. Units that try to force change based on political correctness suffer. Coming from someone who served in combat AND occasionally had women present in that combat, trust me when I say they don't belong there. Period. In my opinion there is no role for them. I don't give a shit about these stupid Female Engagement Teams in Afghanistan. We should not be there to talk and chat and empower the women. The women have zero power in that culture, same as the children. It's how it is whether we like it or not. So aside from collecting intelligence from them, leave them be. The military is there to kill people and destroy things. Men do it better.

 

[Viking1204]

The average Male is stronger and faster than the average Female, that's really all you need to know to answer whether they belong in combat or not.

 

[MAXman]

http://archive.marinecorpstimes.com...-from-Marine-Corps-enlisted-infantry-training

 

[wildrider666]

Top Brass say add females to Draft. PC equality will have a heavy price to pay. I remember when they burned bras and draft cards, you can't have it both ways. I think if your on the freebee Gov tit, you should have a draft card with head of the line privileges. After a year of benifits you must enlist. If not qualified for Service or fail training: benefits Stop. Eliminate ALL exemptions for the able bodied. They packing tampons and condoms in MREs yet?

http://www.guns.com/2016/02/03/military-leaders-to-congress-sign-up-women-for-the-draft/

 

[FrankT]

ah heck let all the girls come in since the military now has to consider climate change in anything they do we can have them monitor that...???

 

[Welldoya]

I don't pretend to know anything about the military or combat. My Dad was in 28 years so, by the time I turned 18, I was tired of moving every two years so didn't pursue it as a career myself.
BUT, all I need to know about women in combat I heard on the radio a few weeks ago. They interviewed a special forces soldier. And he said "I weigh 250 pounds including my gear. I want the person fighting beside me to be able to carry me to safety should I need it. If you can find women that can do that, I'm good with it."