More ATF Bullshit - "in the business of selling firearms"

[Bamaboy19]

FPC is already spinning up a lawsuit. I guess we'll see how things shake out.

I already joined them and GOA, and I've got it on my list to make donations again out of my next paycheck! I left the NRA when Oliver North did, I may take another look now that Wayne LaPierre is gone...

 

[Bamaboy19]

Anything over 9k they have to report or regular deposits of 3- 7k unless associated with a business. ( Bride was a banker for 12 years)
So do like senators, congressman, Presidents and Hunter and open a fake business. LLC, DBA Executive Consulting, blah, blah. Learn the system, work the system.

That's actually part of my retirement strategy! I had been self employed a lot of my life, I miss the wright offs and deductions...

 

[Bamaboy19]

This isnt likely to have any substantive effect, but what will probably happen is there will either be more FFLs, or there will be shoot outs like the Arkansas airport manager.

Its all going to turn on the definition of, “engaged in the business of,” and “number of transactions,” which is hyperbole.

Class III SOT baby!!

 

[FrommerStop]

“https://www.atf.gov/file/100871/download#:~:text=A person who willfully engages,up to $250,000, or both

Updated 8/2023- no opinion expressed on this- posted for informational purposes for our members

Updated August 2023 means it is not up to date.

 

[tros6t]

Obama was 100% correct when he said “Joe f*#%s up everything he touches! “ He’s not even aware what’s going on now, yet the destruction continues!

 

[tros6t]

Very good info

 

[M60Gunner]

Watching this at 0300 this morning, I sat straight up in bed when the guy made a joke about buying from a federal judge in a parking lot, as I actually had that happen lol.

 

[Qoholeth]

Updated August 2023 means it is not up to date.

I think the poster is just updating his disclaimer, of course I could be wrong.

 

[sebastiandangerfield]

Updated August 2023 means it is not up to date.

Not to be argumentative, but August 30, 2023 is when the US Attorney signed the Order proposing changing the definition of “engage in the business”. This pamphlet from the feds was then updated. It is a simplistic layperson’s guide to the new rule going into effect in a couple of weeks. The pamphlet contains numerous plain language examples (pgs.10-12) of when ATF believes you will need to obtain an FFL to sell or transfer a firearm.

If one wishes to verify this all one needs to do is read the US Attorney’s 466 page Order changing the rule which I suspect was intentionally made difficult to do. (the pertinent pages seem to be pgs. 452 to the end) and then go to the federal rules and actually see the changes.

I offer no opinion on this important matter for us. I have only relayed this information so that we as GCGF members can have some guidance in these very confusing and challenging times.

If anyone else on the forum has additional information, please post it for us.

 

[Qoholeth]

Not to be argumentative, but August 30, 2023 is when the US Attorney signed the Order proposing changing the definition of “engage in the business”. This pamphlet from the feds was then updated. It is a simplistic layperson’s guide to the new rule going into effect in a couple of weeks. It contains numerous plain language examples of when ATF believes you will need to obtain an FFL to sell or transfer a firearm.

If one wishes to verify this all one needs to do is read the 466 page document (The pertinent pages seem to be pgs. 452 to the end) and then go to the federal rules and see the changes.

Again, the pamphlet states several plain language examples in which law abiding citizens will need to have a federal firearms license in order to sell or transfer their firearms,

Yes, this

 

[nrajeeper]

The results will be the intent of this new rule.

And the results will be 1) more transactions via FFLs (CYA for a firearm transaction), 2) higher scrutiny and then seizure of FFLs, 3) whose records then become part of the ATF database, and 4) overall drop in firearm ownership due to increased PITA...

Relying on 1) the SCOTUS to rule in favor of liberty and 2) the Feds to actually follow such a ruling is no sure thing...

 

[72sofsme]

Lots of good stuff here but let’s all take a moment and relax. For both the alleged “boot lickers“ and the “Killdozer“ wannabes here (who think that anyone who wants to fly under the radar is a “boot locker”); there‘s the current case in front of SCOTUS concerning Chevron deference. That was the 1980’s SCOTUS ruling that allowed civil servants to write rules that interpreted laws in the favor of the Government (ATF comes to mind) current case of “Loper Bright Enterprises v. Raimondo and Relentless, Inc. v. Department of Commerce are urging the justices to overrule a landmark holding involving the energy giant Chevron. In that decision, from 1984, the court said government agencies are best positioned to interpret federal statutes if a question is not specifically addressed, provided the interpretation is reasonable….”
So all the tough talk may be for nothing. We buy most of our guns from FFL’s as it is. There’s a whole cash economy right under the nose of the government that they talk smack about, yet it continues. Who here filled out a 1099 for making over $600 in profit from selling “stuff” or “services”…? Yes it would seem there’s a 50/50 chance of Piss Pants Joe’s civil servants winning…but if you read up on the case, only the liberals are all for keeping Chevron in place. I’ve always said if changes need to happen, have Congress make the law. If it’s terrible, we vote the bums out, but let’s not let some middle aged civil servant with a degree in Mid-Evil Underwater Cis Gender Studies decide for us all. If we have any “Legal Beagle” types here on the forum, please chime in if any of this needs correcting/clearing up. If SCOTUS gets rid of Chevron….all the “rules” added to laws go bye-bye.

Here is some great info that folks need to look through that will change the fabric (more like a tangled web of f#&@) of the ATF in their rule making authority... https://www.consumerfinancemonitor....to-host-special-webinar-roundtable-on-feb-15/

 

[olliges74]

Hey y'all, let me give you a little background.. I just retired from the military, i'm now 50 years old. I've been in several combat zones, and I (probably like many of you) have done the same, and seen the same shit I have. Kind of like what it looks like when you have society break down and everything devolves into warlords and factions and the shooting starts. I know this, some of you know this. The last half of my service, I was stationed primarily in Europe, and didn't live in the US at all. When I came back, I was greeted with video screens on everything, including gas pumps, civilians who don't care about shit, and kids that run around with Glock switches, and a federal government with an increasingly tyrannical bent, Cops who don't know the law and don't care, A gridlocked Congress passing multiple laws violating all of the first four amendments to the constitution, its truly sad compared to the America I left in 2006. I speak with younger adults (30-ish), and they are completely ignorant of our country's history, as well as anything I learned in high school civics class. I fear our country is doomed, unless some very radical events happen to turn it around. I recognize that the vast majority of the people creating these issues are people essentially in a cult, who seem to have no reasoning capability at all and seem intent on trashing our constitution. I won't have it. I intend on living my life as a free American exactly as I was doing 10, 20 , 30+ years ago. I will continue to pursue my hobbies and do what I wish under the law of the land (constitution). I will remain a sane, moral person. I will also not comply with any of these non-laws. If the ATF wants to see me as a threat, fine, stack up on my door and do what you think is your job. I can't stop you. BUT, I guarantee you won't forget the experience, as I will make some noise, and will defend the constitution as I always have. I want to see my kids grow up and get married, but I won't be a powerless slave under the boot of tyrants either. Oh, and to those who are looking to change the way they live their lives or do business to "get around" their rules, or are complying.... YOU are complicit in this for complying. YOU let this happen. I will not.

 

[FrommerStop]

delete

 

[olliges74]

delete

Pretty sure this was a statement saying something like "watch what you say, the ATF watches these forums" or something to that effect. Let it be known I refuse to lie down, or watch what I say. If it wasn't, my apologies.

 

[FrankT]

I will still list my last 6.8 rifle, mags and ammo for sale as an individual

 

[fl57caveman]

I will still list my last 6.8 rifle, mags and ammo for sale as an individual

AND selling at a great loss also...

 

[ABlaster]

Based on the devaluation of the dollar over time I’ve never made a profit on a gun sale in my life, even if the sale price in 2023 was higher than my purchase price in the 80’s.

 

[Roaster's Gallery]

Based on the devaluation of the dollar over time I’ve never made a profit on a gun sale in my life, even if the sale price in 2023 was higher than my purchase price in the 80’s.

I don't see how anyone makes a profit, selling on this forum anyway - cheapest bunch of f.. fellows I've ever met.

 

[FrankT]

I don't see how anyone makes a profit, selling on this forum anyway - cheapest bunch of f.. fellows I've ever met.

no kidding, you are right