Holy Crap! It passed.

[JBryan314]

I most likely will not open carry. I don't want to be the 1st target of the bad guy. I'd rather ventilate him first.

Are open carriers in the many OC states frequently being targeted by the bad guys?

 

[JBryan314]

There is one and only one reason I hope this passes, if you are conceal carry and you bend down and your shirt raises and shows your weapon you could be in allot of trouble. This would prevent that. That being said I will NEVER open carry. For those that say carrying open deters crime or the age old "Well if he did this I would do that" mentality I would encourage you to google "Knockout game" videos. If said perp is walking towards you and sees your 3K Wilson Combat he very well may decide to BLINDSIDE you and take your weapon. I would prefer to fly under the radar, and if you see mine then it is already too late !

Does this happen often to open carriers in OC states?

 

[JBryan314]

Anyone care to read the whole bill...this part worries me.

* You cannot carry concealed or openly onto private property of any business or person who choses to prohibit it.

Yes, I noticed that too. Does this give a "no guns allowed" sign scribbled on a napkin taped in a Burger King window the force of law? They need to make some strict guidelines if they're going to give people's signs the force of law. Where they must be posted, how, how big, what wording, etc.

 

[JBryan314]

There has already been a provision to the Fl Statutes that PROTECTS CWP from the charge of brandishing a firearm when accidential or momentary exposure of the firearm occurs in a non threatening manner. So if your shirt rides up or your transistion from carry to encased weapon in vehicle, your okay. Be discrete.

I'm not a fan of OC except on the boat or in te bush. Prefer shock and awe when needed. We tend to shield our CC weapon side from others. People congestion can creep up fast even with good situational awareness, elevator, subway, even in narrow store isles. Is OC as much of a deterent as it is a caution that the BGs need a better plan? If a BG is determined to rob you and your CC, he may ask for your stuff and you respond as you need to. Same determined BG sees your OC, he will shoot you first get your goods and another gun too. Even a knife hurts your odds based on the 21 ft rule. For those that want to OC, a level 2 or 3 holster + practice may help retention. Weapon retention skills are little known or praticed outside LE and closely tied into defensive tactics.

I learned long ago there is aways someone bigger and badder out there. Why play poker with your cards face up? I say Walk quietly and carry a big concealed stick.

Why do you say the bad guy will shoot the OCer first? Is this happening a lot in OC states? The answer is no. It's not. So why will it happen in Florida if it's not happening everywhere else?

 

[JBryan314]

The irony is that if we are going to boycott entities that ban firearms we need to start with the NRA. I have taken numerous NRA courses and at the beginning of each class the post a sign that says no guns or ammo allowed.

Sure, Bro. The NRA is totally the first thing we should protest against if we want to keep our guns.

Lol. Get out of here.

 

[TackleberryMCS]

Are a lot of open carriers in the many states that allow OC having their guns grabbed from behind?

The answer is NO. It is rare that even happens.

 

[TackleberryMCS]

Are open carriers in the many OC states frequently being targeted by the bad guys?

Again, the answer is NO.

There seems to be a lot of paranoia around open carry by some. Frankly, I do not see why. I have heard of one instance in the past three years of one person having his gun taken and that happened out in Oregon. It was 2:30am and the guy was standing on a street corner with his .22 pistol on his side and his buddy was there with him. Another male walked up to them and asked for a light for his cigarette and then told the guy to give him his gun. Well, the idiot gave it to him and the guy walked off. Obviously, the individual had no business carrying anyway if he was so irresponsible as to just hand his gun over to someone he did not even know. I have not heard or read of any instance where an individual was attacked and his gun taken away. I have heard of some law enforcement officers that had this happen to them. Go figure.

 

[JBryan314]

Exactly. That was the point I was trying to make. We get anti-gun nut cases like the Brady people screaming about blood in the streets of we allow OC. But then on a pro-gun forum we have people poo-pooing on OC, saying that they worry about bad guys shooting them first and people grabbing their guns from behind. It's the same debate tactic. When a state allows OC, people do not have their guns snatched anymore than blood runs in the streets.

If you don't want to OC, then don't OC. But stop talking about stupid ass scenarios like convenience store robbers picking out the OC guy to shoot first or random thugs grabbing openly carried guns from behind and being like "Oh! Now I have TWO GUNS!". That shit isn't happening at any significant rate in ANY OC state. Stop making it up just because you don't think OC is a good idea. Instead say something that's actually more likely to happen, like "I don't feel like being hassled by uninformed LEOs." Now that's an argument I can accept, and is also the reason that I will RARELY carry openly myself.

 

[fl57caveman]

Again, the answer is NO.

There seems to be a lot of paranoia around open carry by some. Frankly, I do not see why. I have heard of one instance in the past three years of one person having his gun taken and that happened out in Oregon. It was 2:30am and the guy was standing on a street corner with his .22 pistol on his side and his buddy was there with him. Another male walked up to them and asked for a light for his cigarette and then told the guy to give him his gun. Well, the idiot gave it to him and the guy walked off. Obviously, the individual had no business carrying anyway if he was so irresponsible as to just hand his gun over to someone he did not even know. I have not heard or read of any instance where an individual was attacked and his gun taken away. I have heard of some law enforcement officers that had this happen to them. Go figure.

i recall this one, guy pulled his own gun & stole it at gunpoint..

 

[flphotog]

Yes, I noticed that too. Does this give a "no guns allowed" sign scribbled on a napkin taped in a Burger King window the force of law? They need to make some strict guidelines if they're going to give people's signs the force of law. Where they must be posted, how, how big, what wording, etc.

Nothing changes concerning signs. You can't CC into a business today if the business doesn't want you to, the thing is if you CC no one will know about it and ask you to leave. If you OC, well it's just hanging out there so the chance that you will be asked to leave goes way up, and just like today you have3 to leave or face armed trespass charges.

 

[MAXman]

I absolutly cannot wait to not have to jimmy some way to carry the ruger mk both concealed and accessible when kayaking.

 

[Jeb21]

There is one and only one reason I hope this passes, if you are conceal carry and you bend down and your shirt raises and shows your weapon you could be in allot of trouble. This would prevent that. !

Recently the law was modified to remove this concern. If you inadvertently flash you gun you will not be charged

 

[TackleberryMCS]

Recently the law was modified to remove this concern. If you inadvertently flash you gun you will not be charged

Correct. The last time the open carry bill was introduced a few years ago (by Sen. Greg Evers), it was shot down and they amended the current concealed carry statutes so as not to make accidental brandishing illegal and punishable.

 

[wildrider666]

Why do you say the bad guy will shoot the OCer first? Is this happening a lot in OC states? The answer is no. It's not. So why will it happen in Florida if it's not happening everywhere else?

BGs want guns to conduct their trade, their gang or street resale. Spots OC and wants the his gun with an absolute minimum of risk to himself. Simply, what would a BG do? Bang, bang, snag an run. All other option inject risk into the "plan".

 

[budbreak96]

Like many I'd like to see the bill passed, But I'm also aware that a few things can and most likely will happen.

Number 1 business will be pressured by the antis to post there properties and those that don't will be harassed and boycotted. And we all know most business are out to make a dollar or they get closed up so eventually they will give in and post their property. Not all will but most bigger places will.

Now carrying concealed no one but you know what or if you are carrying, so business you walk into carrying concealed shouldn't harass you, walk in open carry they have to ask you to leave if they are posted.

This causes a scene neither you nor the store wants to deal with, but we all know there will always be one idiot anti that will make a scene and the store will have to act.

The other thing I see is the few idiot wannabe gangsters trying to intimidate others by running around acting like pure a-holes and making honest gun owners look very bad, or worst yet the zealots that think they need to walk around with Aks & Ars strung over their backs in a grocery store.

There are still people out there that don't mind that individuals carry firearms but they don't feel comfortable seeing it or having it shown around their kids and grand parents etc.

As for the attitude some of you seem to have , That go ahead let someone try to knock me out and take my gun I'll take them on.

I truly hope that you are only kidding.

I have been one of the guys who used my firearm during not one but two attacks. I was able to survive but it took a long time to get over why I killed someone who was trying to kill me.

I don't care who you are, You will relive that few seconds over and over, you will analyze why and what else you could of done. It's not like being in the service and in combat, because you will plainly see the face of your attacker and remember it.

I was lucky I devoted literally thousands of hours on practical shooting situations and was an instructor before this all happened so I just reacted to the situation.

If taking a life isn't a bad enough thing it's the months turning in to years of being questioned about how and why it happened. The only relief you get is when your finally told that it was a justified shooting and cleared, but then you have the dam relatives that now want to sue you in civil courts. You better have deep pockets for lawyers is all I can say.

Also with those of you thinking about practicing open carry remember one thing. A firearm in the view of the public is still no good unless you practice, And that doesn't mean one or two trips to the range every year.

It means 3-4 hrs every week for a few months then at least a few hours each month, and that means shooting and practicing withe the firearm you intend to carry. If you can't successfully hit the target dead center at 50yrds with your carry firearm each time you fire it. Your better off leaving it home.

The above statements are only my honest opinions I'm sure some may not agree. But that's OK. I've been in situations others haven't been in and I hope and pray non of you are ever in.

I do want to see the Open carry bill passed just hope it doesn't screw things up worst.

"If you can't successfully hit the target dead center at 50yrds with your carry firearm each time you fire it. Your better off leaving it home."

I agree with a lot you had to say, but this I don't really agree with and you and everyone else might not give a ratsass. My father is a retired Special Agent for the State of Florida of 30 year's. In his 30 year's he (Thank God) luckily he never had to shoot anyone, he shot a few rounds off to get the suspect to stop, but the worse thing he had to do was before he was at F.D.L.E. he was a uniform cop, it was his second week on the job where he had his own car, he wasn't allowed to have a firearm yet (back then you had to purchase your own firearm) Well there was a call to a bar fight and he was not supposed to go inside unless another officer was at the scene, well him just getting back from Vietnam(medevac) he was young dumb and full of c__, He is the first to arrive at the bar so he goes inside but kinda stands at the door, the bar was real smokey so he said he was trying to get his vision adjusted so he could see, he could see the two guys trying to fight so he started walking towards them saying the cop stuff they say, hey break this sh_t up, well all of a sudden another deputy walks in and see's my dad and yell's duck Joe! He ducked right at the last minute, he said he could feel the wind from the pool stick he pulled out his night-stick and hit that guy over the top of the head and bam he hit the floor laid out blood everywhere under the pool table, the other jackass dropped the broken beer bottle he was swinging and said sir I am good please don't hit me I'll do what ever you tell me to. That guy had to get around 100 staples in his head but from that day forward when he would patrol through that section of town everyone knew him and if he had the windows down they would say "hey Mr. ______" The guy lived with no permanent damage except that biggg asss scar.

But anyways, Him and I have had several talk's about if something where to ever happen and there was no other option but to shoot someone you better not shoot them. I had a Glock 27 .40, well when I first got it I was 20 years old, bought it brand-new from the gun show, no paperwork except cash leaving my hand going to his and The gun getting put into a bag with the stuff they used to come with. It was the 1st gen. Well my dad see's it, of course I got the full spill but anyways He asked me what made you want to buy a .40 caliber and not a .380 or 9mm? Knockdown power, if something does happen I want to make sure the job is done. (This is where you talk about lawyers and deep pockets come in) He said a .380 will do the job just like that will, Let me tell you something If something happens and you have to use your weapon the bad guy better be a few feet from you if you are in fear for your life and feel like that's what you have to do. He said with that hand-cannon you have if you think that you can shoot someone 15-20 yards away and the jury is going to go for you where in fear for your life you better think again. He said if something every happens and you have to protect yourself or a loved one you better make sure that they are close to you and you are in fear for your life and family's life, you had no other option. As I got older I thought about what he said and when Ruger first came out with the P3AT I bought one and with the right ammo it will do the job just like a .40 will. NOW IF SOME WACK JOB IS 20-30 YARDS AWAY AND SHOOTING THE PLACE UP KILLING INNOCENT PEOPLE, YEAH A .40 WOULD PROBABLY BE BETTER, BUT I HAVE BEEN SHOOTING SINCE I WAS 10 OR YOUNGER AND PRACTICED SAFTEY WITH MY DAD AND MY GRANDFATHER A LOT AND AM PRETTY COMFORTABLE WITH MY FIREARM HANDLING. Now don't get it wrong, I still try to go to the range atleast once a month, When the old man owned the range the FWC I think owns now, The Little older Lady in there liked me and we got to talking one day and she knew my dad. Back then a box of 250 .40 at Academy was $39.99 you can barley get 100 rounds for that now.

 

[budbreak96]

Exactly. That was the point I was trying to make. We get anti-gun nut cases like the Brady people screaming about blood in the streets of we allow OC. But then on a pro-gun forum we have people poo-pooing on OC, saying that they worry about bad guys shooting them first and people grabbing their guns from behind. It's the same debate tactic. When a state allows OC, people do not have their guns snatched anymore than blood runs in the streets.

If you don't want to OC, then don't OC. But stop talking about stupid ass scenarios like convenience store robbers picking out the OC guy to shoot first or random thugs grabbing openly carried guns from behind and being like "Oh! Now I have TWO GUNS!". That shit isn't happening at any significant rate in ANY OC state. Stop making it up just because you don't think OC is a good idea. Instead say something that's actually more likely to happen, like "I don't feel like being hassled by uninformed LEOs." Now that's an argument I can accept, and is also the reason that I will RARELY carry openly myself.

Just to add my 2 cent's. When some 'thug" is breaking into car's if they see it has an alarm flashing or the home has camera's pointed right at the vehicle, most likely they are going to pass that car and keep going till they find one that's unlocked, doesn't have an alarm, etc... Same with your home, If you have a security system and lock your house up when you are home and when you leave, most criminal's are going to keep going. They want to hit the easiest target possible without being caught. Most likely if a situation was going to happen where a bad guy was going to rob you or something like these scenarios, if they see you carrying a firearm I would think they would question themselves about screwing with you and wait for someone else. Open carrying they might think that might be a under cover cop or an off duty officer. I see where you are coming from about someone coming up from behind you and trying to take your weapon, that's where you have to be alert, always watch your back, ect.....

 

[JBryan314]

BGs want guns to conduct their trade, their gang or street resale. Spots OC and wants the his gun with an absolute minimum of risk to himself. Simply, what would a BG do? Bang, bang, snag an run. All other option inject risk into the "plan".

I notice you didn't respond to the second part of my question. If your scenario isn't occurring at a statistically significant rate in the many OC states, why would it suddenly start happening in Florida?

 

[John B.]

It's not, and it doesn't... why would a bad guy shoot someone to take their gun, when you can pull door handles all night and get several guns... criminals are stupid, but not that stupid.

 

[JBryan314]

It's not, and it doesn't... why would a bad guy shoot someone to take their gun, when you can pull door handles all night and get several guns... criminals are stupid, but not that stupid.

What are there, like 44 states that allow OC? And this stuff isn't happening in any of those states. Yet people who claim to be pro-gun are inventing these fictional scenarios and whining about how they're worried about OC in Florida. I don't get it. Everyone is so gung-ho about guns until you mention OC. Then they start acting like a bunch of whiney antis using the same debate tactics of making up scary stories that don't happen in real life.

 

[JBryan314]

I do want to see the Open carry bill passed just it doesn't screw things up worse.[Quote/]


Has it screwed things up worse in any of the current OC states?


No. It hasn't.


I also hope it doesn't screw things up worse, but I also see absolutely ZERO reason to think it might.


As far as being better off leaving your pistol at home if you don't hit "dead center" at fifty yards 100% of the time you pull trigger... No. There are some firearms that are not capable of hitting "dead center" at fifty yards. My brother in law delivers pizzas and he carries a short barreled .38 revolver.. He is a veteran and trained adequately in his spare time with this weapon in order to protect himself on his routes. He has most practiced the amount you say is necessary. Is he better off leaving it at home.

Of course not.

I immensely respect your experiences (probably much more than you think after reading this) with life and death scenarios, but your two experiences are totally unique to you. They do not define requirements and standards for anyone else.