BREAKING: DefDist Forced to Remove 3D-Printed Gun Files from Public Access

[Patoz]

BREAKING: DefDist Forced to Remove 3D-Printed Gun Files from Public Access by Dept. of State

This afternoon the State Department, specifically the Dept. of Defense Trade Controls, demanded that the plans for the Wiki Weapon “Liberator,” a nearly entirely 3D-printed single-shot .380 ACP pistol, be pulled from the “subversive” 3D printing website DEFCAD. And ”until further notice, the United States government claims control of the information.”

Read the rest: http://www.guns.com/2013/05/09/defcad-files-removed-from-public-access-at-the-request-of-the-ddtc/

Well, that didn't take long!

 

[dogamus rex]

I gotta agree. Technology will surpass common sense .

 

[DSPLCD1]

You don't think that this may have happened already? Look at all the people in a haze typing or looking at there smart phones?

I gotta agree. Technology will surpass common sense .

 

[Snow Bird]

I would think that anyone who had enough money to have the equipment to make a plastic gun would have enough money to buy a gun. Might be fun to make if you had the tools and wante'd to play but I doubt that it is much of a threat to our country. Doubt that all the bad guys in the world are going to jump on the idea of plastic guns over preasure cookers. Just the goverment at work again.

 

[WILWORK4GUNS]

I think the printable gun was an overhyped publicity stunt....in reality a useless piece of plastic - more liable to injure the shooter than the intended target. A knife would do more damage than a .380 with no barrel.
I think the reaction is a bit overboard, but par for the course with the current administration.
Who would really buy an $8000 printer to make this piece of cr@p, when they could just steal a much better weapon ....any weapon really. In the end this is just a zip gun....next they will ban the google images of zip guns.

 

[WILWORK4GUNS]

http://www.cncmasters.com/index.php?page=cnc-baron-milling-machine
Buy this machine and you can "print" actual firearms....or anything else out of STEEL.
These have been around ....including the files to form ar15 receivers....for a long time.....where is the ban?
The liberator ban is BS.

 

[wildrider666]

Another issue for the gun grabbing chicken little's to run around and yell about.

State Department Action NOT ATF action? Hum.... Looks like a preemptive move to be inline with the UN Small-Arms Treaty so the U.S. is not exporting plans to poor third world countries with 8000 3D Printers in every hut. Da gun is printing... Da gun is printing.

 

[JohnAL]

The UN Small-Arms Treaty was the first thing that popped into my mind.

 

[Zeus]

That file has already been downloaded by thousands so there is no way to ever remove it from the interwebs. That has always been the intent me thinks.

I have followed this printable "gun" topic since the very beginning. Plastic or not, .380 or not, AR lower or not, barrel or not, .... the general idea that I got from it all was that from the beginning this fine upstanding young gentleman was doing it specifically as an end around against those who can not or will not read the phrase "shall not be infringed"

And the Liberator was 100% printable, he only added a modified chunk of a nail as a firing pin so there was metal in it to stay within the law.

Give it a few months and you will probably be reading about how he died in a freak surfing accident in AZ ......


Edit > PS: and since ammo would be the limiting factor in the end... I even went so far as to send him info on a powderless single shot .22 design for him to play with several months ago. With his knowledge he should be able to easily extrapolate that into a revolver or even mag fed since I already had rudimentary ideas on how to do just that. That way even the ammo would be printable.

 

[TURTLE]

I think the printable gun was an overhyped publicity stunt....in reality a useless piece of plastic - more liable to injure the shooter than the intended target. A knife would do more damage than a .380 with no barrel.
I think the reaction is a bit overboard, but par for the course with the current administration.
Who would really buy an $8000 printer to make this piece of cr@p, when they could just steal a much better weapon ....any weapon really. In the end this is just a zip gun....next they will ban the google images of zip guns.

You may want to look into these printers a bit more. I got a friend that has one and for kicks I asked him if we could make a duplicate torque wrench since I had one in my truck and he was like, sure go get it. We put it in the scanner, scanned it, fill the toner up with the additives for this application to increase the strength and hit the print button. It's not the fastest thing in the world but when it came out we put both on a huge lug nut, put a leverage pipe on one and hooked it up to the wench of his 4 wheeler and started to apply pressure. keep in mind wedid not take the original wrench aprt so the torque part did not work. We tried the printed one first and it sterted to pull the 4 wheeler so we strapped it down with an aircraft strap and continued. It did flex about 1billimeter but did not break. Then we made a fresh setup and tried the original with the same sequence and that thing started to bend WAY sooner then the printed one and when we were done it was bent and worthless ( Worth it to see this )

So my point is that the parts you print you can make very strong and very heat resistive and rust proof. It is very possible to scan in every part separately except the breech and barrel and order those parts from wherever you want. Assemble when they arrive and WHAMMY you have a super strong lighter ( In some cases) weapon that won't rust that you have a couple hundred bucks in.

Also, you are way off on the cost. You can get them for $8000 but you can also get some capable of doing this at a big box store for under $1K . I think there will be some very interesting legislation coming down the pike soon on either the printer or toner. And BTW over 800,000 downloads on that turd of a gun that guy designed and after it was taken down probably 10 times that by now so it can't be stopped at this point.

 

[WILWORK4GUNS]

You may want to look into these printers a bit more. I got a friend that has one and for kicks I asked him if we could make a duplicate torque wrench since I had one in my truck and he was like, sure go get it. We put it in the scanner, scanned it, fill the toner up with the additives for this application to increase the strength and hit the print button. It's not the fastest thing in the world but when it came out we put both on a huge lug nut, put a leverage pipe on one and hooked it up to the wench of his 4 wheeler and started to apply pressure. keep in mind wedid not take the original wrench aprt so the torque part did not work. We tried the printed one first and it sterted to pull the 4 wheeler so we strapped it down with an aircraft strap and continued. It did flex about 1billimeter but did not break. Then we made a fresh setup and tried the original with the same sequence and that thing started to bend WAY sooner then the printed one and when we were done it was bent and worthless ( Worth it to see this )

So my point is that the parts you print you can make very strong and very heat resistive and rust proof. It is very possible to scan in every part separately except the breech and barrel and order those parts from wherever you want. Assemble when they arrive and WHAMMY you have a super strong lighter ( In some cases) weapon that won't rust that you have a couple hundred bucks in.

Also, you are way off on the cost. You can get them for $8000 but you can also get some capable of doing this at a big box store for under $1K . I think there will be some very interesting legislation coming down the pike soon on either the printer or toner. And BTW over 800,000 downloads on that turd of a gun that guy designed and after it was taken down probably 10 times that by now so it can't be stopped at this point.

I guess I came down pretty hard on the liberator....I just meant that that its stupid to ban this- since there are a million other ways to build an improvised firearm.....many with parts from the local hardware store...and costing tens of dollars NOT thousands.
I still would not pull the trigger on one of these...as plastics are a tempermental group. They can be strong, and they can be flexible. If you get one that is hard enough to withstand pressure....once it reaches its failure point its catastrophic - like glass. Getting one that is perfect for what you are doing is part science, and part experimentation. I'm not into testing experimental firearms with my bare hands.
From my experience - machines like this are for prototyping , not for production. They are intended to produce a test piece....usually just used to test for fit and function. The real item it then produced in a million dollar CNC machine - out of a more appropriate material.
I'd love to have one...and I'm sure they can do some impressive stuff.....but I'll use my milling machine for the important stuff.

 

[Zeus]

I guess I came down pretty hard on the liberator....I just meant that that its stupid to ban this- since there are a million other ways to build an improvised firearm.....many with parts from the local hardware store...and costing tens of dollars NOT thousands.
I still would not pull the trigger on one of these...as plastics are a tempermental group. They can be strong, and they can be flexible. If you get one that is hard enough to withstand pressure....once it reaches its failure point its catastrophic - like glass. Getting one that is perfect for what you are doing is part science, and part experimentation. I'm not into testing experimental firearms with my bare hands.
From my experience - machines like this are for prototyping , not for production. They are intended to produce a test piece....usually just used to test for fit and function. The real item it then produced in a million dollar CNC machine - out of a more appropriate material.
I'd love to have one...and I'm sure they can do some impressive stuff.....but I'll use my milling machine for the important stuff.

The CAD program works with any material, not just plastic. He probably uses plastic as that is what he has access to and for prototypes it's fine.

If you have a milling machine then you know they are already printing end mills, ball mills, etc. on 3D printers right ?

I think the point to his project is universal access ... take for example the program the Gov. just grabbed, I have already found it for free download in 4 different places.

 

[WILWORK4GUNS]

The CAD program works with any material, not just plastic. He probably uses plastic as that is what he has access to and for prototypes it's fine.

If you have a milling machine then you know they are already printing end mills, ball mills, etc. on 3D printers right ?

I think the point to his project is universal access ... take for example the program the Gov. just grabbed, I have already found it for free download in 4 different places.

I guess my other point is....is it universal access if most people can't afford the printer?
I understand the effort...but I still don't think it succeeds as well as either side claims.
I don't follow you with the reference to the milling bits.....I know they can't be printed....they are carefully produced from hardened and coated steel or carbide.
I know the CADCAM program would work for other functions, but the printer will only do plastic.
I wanted to mention that I don't think the piece of nail in the design is for legal purposes.....brass is harder than most plastics....so in order to strike the brass primer, a harder material is required. In common firearms, the heat treated steel firing pin can become worn....so I don't think plastic would do the job.

 

[wildrider666]

Just a bad thought: If World Gov can't control the "guns", wouldn't they then put tighter controls on ammo?

 

[WILWORK4GUNS]

All this BS had me looking at .45 airguns today! They are cool....but 750fps 200 gr. pellet 8 shots.....maybe. Impressive for an airgun...but my Thompson m1 gets me 1100 fps with 230gr.....30 rounds - and that does not get much respect for my other firearms....so I'll skip the airgun.
I'm just glad I already have my guns/ammo.....and I'm gonna hold on to them.....no question of wheather I can buy one.....or print one.
I have had to cut back on practice though.
Print me a laser gun...then I'll be impressed!:laser:

 

[ARAMP1]

What I don't get is how is this any different than when things are printed on a metal 3D printer...er, I mean lathe?

 

[wildrider666]

A lot of Heavy handed GOV folks flexing. The pulled and stole these 3D printer plans " so it would not proliferate small arms outside the U.S. but there are blueprints and instructions on the internet for other firearms so WTF Big Gov. ?

 

[Bean Counter]

Some things you cannot make with a CNC (milling) machine. They are reverse ideas. A CNC machine makes things by taking material away. A 3D printer makes things by adding material. Think about it this way a 3D printer can make a ball inside a ball, can't do that by taking material away.

 

[wildrider666]

Some things you cannot make with a CNC (milling) machine. They are reverse ideas. A CNC machine makes things by taking material away. A 3D printer makes things by adding material. Think about it this way a 3D printer can make a ball inside a ball, can't do that by taking material away.

Great reply! Really shows the difference. The Gov's intent is to stop the flow of the "Plans/program". Are 3D printer programs different from CAD/CAM programs as far as this is concerned? I understand the "one stop shopping" print advantage but both can produce a gun. What is the bigger picture of the Gov's ability to steal or stop application of intellectual property in other fields?

Lets say someone invented a ultra cheap and safe chemical that one drop will convert a gallon of water into synthetic crude oil. Think of the U.S. and World economic impact. Does anyone think the Gov would not take this too.

 

[Bean Counter]

The Cad/Cam programs are pretty much the same. The bigger issues, I would think, would be the ability to make a gun that cannot be tracked and as these printers get cheaper how would you keep criminals from obtaining an endless supply of weapons with no accountability by anyone. The reason I would think most concerning for the feds, beyond wanting to keep their noses in everybody's business, is technology. As rapidly as technology progresses these days how long do you believe it will be before someone creates a truly undetectable firearm? Polymer everything all the way to the firing pin and shell casings. It would not have to be for the long haul like normal people would be interested in. Maybe it is designed to fire once or twice, think of potential security risks, and once it has completed its mission toss it in a fire to melt it down. Just my rambling mind. One other thing the CNC machine and stock required to make a a gun would probably be quite a bit more expensive and less mobile than a 3D printer.