Atlanta Cops Enter Wrong House, Cop and Owner of House Shot.....

[Little Jack]

Trouble with suing public servants is the public pays the bill. At worse the public servant loses their gig. Perhaps the government should give up being self insured and be required to purchase insurance like the rest of us. Something needs to de done to curb reckless actions by public servants and their misuse of tax dollars, and I'm not talking just cops. (see EPA, VA, IRS, DOJ ect, ect, ect all the way down to local levels)

Rick

If the government is paying for anything, that's tax dollars. No way around that one. If you were to hold the individual responsible and make them pay. That wouldn't be public funds. It'd be interesting to see what insurance rates would be for something like that.

 

[shootnstarz]

If the government is paying for anything, that's tax dollars. No way around that one. If you were to hold the individual responsible and make them pay. That wouldn't be public funds. It'd be interesting to see what insurance rates would be for something like that.

Yep, I agree. But in the current system public servants have no incentive to be extremely careful with both our tax dollars and their perceived power over us. There has to be some sort of recourse to hold those responsible for government abuse to account rectify the abuse without the taxpayer constantly picking up the tab for governmental incompetence.

I too wonder how the insurance idea would weigh against the outflow of public funds for repairs, reimbursments and restitutions in the current system. I believe if every government employee had to pay for this insurance out of their salary/wages there would be some incentive to keep the cost down. Just a thought.

Sorry for the thread derail !!

Rick

 

[MAXman]

Oh come on guys. We all know The pd will make up for the funding with grants. That the Feds borrow from either the reserve or somewhere.

I can think of a recourse. It's called jail. Or prison, if it's a felony. Maybe that harsh, but personally.... You wanna be held to a higher standard, then be held to it. If you wanna check out I locked doors, shoot dogs and homeowners, and act like the world needs to "respect" you, just go be a thug. We've all experienced it in one way or another, a Leo with a chip on his shoulder that either broke the law or have the impression they were willing to.

 

[MarkS]

Trouble with suing public servants is the public pays the bill. At worse the public servant loses their gig. Perhaps the government should give up being self insured and be required to purchase insurance like the rest of us. Something needs to de done to curb reckless actions by public servants and their misuse of tax dollars, and I'm not talking just cops. (see EPA, VA, IRS, DOJ ect, ect, ect all the way down to local governments) On all levels the taxpayer foots the bill for government mistakes with the offending parties usually walking free if not profiting greatly.

Rick

Being put in a position of having to sue your local govt. is a bad position to be put in especially when their failures can be protected by sovereign immunity. That's about all I can say without being in violation of an unliked agreement

 

[flyandscuba]

Perhaps the government should give up being self insured and be required to purchase insurance like the rest of us. Rick

Most municipal and county governments do purchase insurance - even a specific line of coverage for law enforcement liability. Some buy it in the voluntary market from companies like Travelers and OneBeacon (I worked previously for both and was a risk management consultant on this line of coverage). Others buy it from pools or self insurance funds like the Sheriff's Association or the Florida League of Cities.

The premiums are still paid with public funds - and most have at least a deductible or layer of self insured retention that comes directly from the insured agencies.

State torts do have caps in Florida - but many LEL claims cross over into the federal realm where tort caps do not apply - for things such as "civil rights violations". It isn't terribly difficult for a plaintiff attorney to build a case that wrongful use of force or illegal search & seizure violates a client's civil rights...

 

[FNHman]

So, if three thugs break in and shine lights at you - yelling "police, on the ground"... You're automatically going to obey?

If I can't readily visually determine said entrants are in fact LEOs - I'm blasting away..

Amen to that. Shooting it out is a much better alternative than your familys certain death/rape by thugs pretending to be cops.

Like mentioned before, if your not a criminal then there is no reason to rationally believe that the person/persons in you dwelling is LEO regardless of whatever they are shouting.

 

[Jeb21]

I thought the home owner did not even have a gun. Is there new info re that issue? Also what kind of dog did they shoot?

 

[Seanpcola]

The reality is we can all speculate on what we would do in the comfort of our living room. Reality is a much different matter.

In my last post I wasn't implying that I wouldn't blast away but I suspect I might be more hesitant than most of you, especially the ones that have actually seen high pressure action similar to this scenario. However, I find it highly unlikely that a bunch of thugs would show up at my particular house, dressed in official looking uniforms to steal my 48" TV. Real cops making a big mistake might be another matter but again, where I live the closest even suspect thug den would be a mile away.

 

[JohnAL]

My TV is only 42".

 

[MAXman]

And if the switch a couple numbers on the address for the search/arrest warrant, or mistype the street name?

Jeb, it's common during a raid to shoot the dog. (This wasn't a raid/warrant issue, however). They make noise, attack, etc. it's possible the dog wasier also possible that the dog was shot in accident. Surely the officer didn't intend to blow his partner away either.

Little jack's has a good idea, IMO. If a car door closes after 8pm and before 8am, the dachsund goes scalded ape. If the Shepard hears or sees a shadow, she let's off a couple barks and a growl. The wiener usually wakes me up, and if the big girl makes noise also the lights come on(and so do I). You think a couple meth heads looking for some easy to pedal shit are gonna wanna deal with two dogs and a obviously awake occupant? Plus, and you guys might think in a sissy for this one, but if this chain of events happens after 11 then I'm dialing the Milton pd for back up.

It's not that different than getting lit up on chumukla at 9pm when you weren't speeding: sure, you can't cruise your house with your 4 ways to a lit area while dialing 911, but you can baracaide and call. If you hear a group of guys yelling clear as the approach, well, I guess it's possible a couple gang bangers will be using proper clearing techniques as they come to rape/pillage/steal/murder.

I assume we are all aware of the billings case, which could apply here, except indont own anything worth planning a robbery over. So about the only reason for a group of guys to want to break down my door, and try to emulate law enforcement in an effort to catch me with my gaurd down, it's gonna be the rap/murder/pillage motivation. I guess in theory it's possible, but I truley doubt it.

Again, do what you guys feel you have to, and the old adage, judged by twelve instead of carried by six.


I still disagree with no knock and night time serving of warrants. And instill think entering the wrong house because the back door was unlocked and shooting 1 cop, 1 (unarmed)homeowner and 1 dog is(at best) criminally negligent.

 

[Seanpcola]

My TV is only 42".

You're safe then.


I know there is confusions but I just don't think I'm going to worry too much about it in my life. I would if I lived elsewhere. I used to live on the water in Navy Point but moved after Ivan. Haven't been back much in years but today I had to go do some work at my boss' old office building right on Navy Blvd. First time in quite a while that I was seriously conscious of being armed and damned glad I was.

I do need to get a couple of dogs though. I've never been this long with out K9 companionship but I have my reasons. I will soon. As for the house, I get comments from people in the neighborhood that my house is completely dark at night, no lighting on the outside. It sits back about 400' of the road and anyone not familiar with the area wouldn't even know a house is there at night......till you get about 50' from the front, after that it starts lighting up like a Christmas tree and you can't go anywhere past that without being well illuminated. Then I have motion sensor chimes coming up the driveway and scattered all around. I do get awaken sometimes at night by the occasional cat, possum or whatever but that just let's me know the system is on line. I have a few new surprises in the works that I won't discuss publicly. Thenm the house is two-story which will give me a little more time plus ill be at a good advantage over anyone heading up that narrow shooting gallery. So, I really doubt I'll ever get surprised.