Ask the Reloading Experts

[Bowhntr6pt]

Extreme spreads are a thing... but just like guys who think MOA is easily obtained and all rifles should be MOA performers, ES IMO isn't all that and a bag of chips.

I know the precision guys are rolling their eyes at that statement, but, with the bullets you said you're using, if accuracy is there, drive on and don't waste time and resources chasing the ES ghost. Just my opinion...

 

[Jester896]

it doesn't have to have the best ES/SD to shoot good...it is just nice when it does. from the sounds of everything...the first thing I might check is the Chrono

 

[RobertTaylor]

it doesn't have to have the best ES/SD to shoot good...it is just nice when it does. from the sounds of everything...the first thing I might check is the Chrono

I may check that first. Just seems weird that I'm getting 40 to 70 fps ES with some factory cheap crap then mine's so high.
I'll definitely see about checking over someone else's though

 

[RobertTaylor]

I noticed a little more variation in the amount of force to seat bullets for my plain range ammo. Stopped, all the mouths measure more or less the same, all the same headstamp, all fired once.
I assume that means that some of the brass is softer then others? Annealing the only answer here?
Really trying to do my own research and figure it out, but I keep running into issues haha.
Thanks for all the help so far

 

[Jester896]

more or less the same ..varying neck tension could certainly do it...only change 1 thing at a time and you will work it out.
I even thought about bullet seating depth...making sure the cannelure was in the right place to crimp and not deform the bullet a little in the crimp process.

 

[RobertTaylor]

more or less the same ..varying neck tension could certainly do it...only change 1 thing at a time and you will work it out.
I even thought about bullet seating depth...making sure the cannelure was in the right place to crimp and not deform the bullet a little in the crimp process.

What would be the best fix, aside from annealing?

 

[Rebel_Rider1969]

My .02. If they are accurate, leave it alone.

 

[RobertTaylor]

My .02. If they are accurate, leave it alone.

Accurate till I get out further, then they tend to open up, atleast the ones that have wildly different velocity tend to favor a certain area, whether it's high, low, or to a side
Hate to have that much variation once I'm getting close to max loads

 

[RobertTaylor]

Also noticed that as my charge increased
(H335 and sierra 55 gr fmj) my ES increased. A lot. Not even to max load, want to say 25 gr, ES of 162 fps

 

[Jhunter]

Accurate till I get put further, then they tend to open up.
Hate to have that much variation once I'm getting close to max loads

Max load for your rifle will be different than what the lawyers printed in your book. Be cautious with load development but max load should start to plane off as you add powder and approach max psi. Example: 22.5-23.0 will be an increase of 10 fps for each .1 of powder but 23.5-24.0 will increase by 4 fps per .1 of powder

 

[RobertTaylor]

Max load for your rifle will be different than what the lawyers printed in your book. Be cautious with load development but max load should start to plane off as you add powder and approach max psi. Example: 22.5-23.0 will be an increase of 10 fps for each .1 of powder but 23.5-24.0 will increase by 4 fps per .1 of powder

*close to the books max loads.
Point was that as my charge increases, my ES increases, and it doesn't ever seem to come back down. I'm leaning towards a neck tension issue? I can find any other issue, but I can feel some big differences in the effort to seating bullets.
They all measure essentially the same, so it must be brass with different hardnesses/"springy-ness"
Is the only fix annealing?
How are people picking up range brass for making practice ammo not having to anneal everything?

 

[Jhunter]

I used a Shooting Chrony Beta Master when I first started reloading. Some days it was spot on but about 80% of the time it would get closer to about 4% accuracy because of light conditions. 4% of 2900 fps is 116 fps. I always read about single digit SDs and thought i couldn’t produce them. I bought a Magneto Speed and found out that I could load single digit SDs. I now use a Labradar both will get you inside 1%

 

[RobertTaylor]

I used a Shooting Chrony Beta Master when I first started reloading. Some days it was spot on but about 80% of the time it would get closer to about 4% accuracy because of light conditions. 4% of 2900 fps is 116 fps. I always read about single digit SDs and thought i couldn’t produce them. I bought a Magneto Speed and found out that I could load single digit SDs. I now use a Labradar both will get you inside 1%

That will be my next investment. Everyone recommends that, I'm still having the neck tension or brass hardness issue. Worry about it now? Or after getting a better chronograph?

 

[Jhunter]

That will be my next investment. Everyone recommends that, I'm still having the neck tension or brass hardness issue. Worry about it now? Or after getting a better chronograph?

Neck tension will be consistent if you sort by headstamp. If you are shooting mixed headstsmp range brass you will struggle with consistency on shoulder bump, velocity, oal, pressure, seating depth, etc.

 

[RobertTaylor]

Neck tension will be consistent if you sort by headstamp. If you are shooting mixed headstsmp range brass you will struggle with consistency on shoulder bump, velocity, oal, pressure, seating depth, etc.

It's not though, all lake city brass, I shot it the first time, kept that brass separate, it it's a huge amount of difference in pressure seating.

 

[Jhunter]

It's not though, all lake city brass, I shot it the first time, kept that brass separate, it it's a huge amount of difference in pressure seating.

Chamfered and debured? Lake City is good stuff. Chamfering the inside of the case mouth will help with consistent seating depth. Also Flat base bullets are hard to keep straight when seating. Boat tail is much easier. You have to guide them into the die.

 

[RobertTaylor]

Chamfered and debured? Lake City is good stuff. Chamfering the inside of the case mouth will help with consistent seating depth. Also Flat base bullets are hard to keep straight when seating. Boat tail is much easier. You have to guide them into the die.

Always chamfer. Wonder if the pilot on the trimmer is hurting anything?

 

[Jester896]

jest because all of the cases have a LC head stamp doesn't mean they were all made on the same machine. A stronger chance they would have been in your case since it could have been all the same lot on the factory loads varying neck tension will cause a difference in pressures which could very well increase velocities. Yes, you can feel the difference in seating bullets with varying neck tension. I think annealing them could bring them closer to uniformity.

Here is a small string when I first shot my new Dasher after I cleaned it from the first 5 shots and changed powder. Granted it was a 4 shot string and far from conclusive. All of it was new brass not fire formed to my chamber. The all seated with the same amount of pressure in the Arbor Press.

the trimmer could rough the neck up a little if the tensions vary even more I would think. Especially if they aren't lubed.

 

[Bowhntr6pt]

Also noticed that as my charge increased
(H335 and sierra 55 gr fmj) my ES increased. A lot. Not even to max load, want to say 25 gr, ES of 162 fps

Maybe I missed it...

Exactly what bullet are you shooting?

What are you shooting it out of?

What are you seeing group wise at 100 yards?

 

[Bowhntr6pt]

Keep in mind, from a terminal ballistics stand point, FMJ bullets really have no purpose other than to make a hole and perhaps yaw after impact.

FMJ bullets are mass produced, cheap, and arguably have the least QC... thus it's reasonable to expect variations in jacket thickness and construction exist. Non-uniform jacket thickness can obviously effect velocity and pressure.

If your other loads/bullets are not giving you larger spreads, and all other things being the same, I suggest the actual bullet and it's pure design as suspect.