Droshki said:

So, cops are liers? Somebody fetch me my fainting couch.

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????

Every libtard snowflake wants to blame the gun or scream that more laws are needed, and the rest of us are trying to point out that the laws already exist, IF ONLY THE SPINELESS PEOPLE INVOLVED WOULD USE THEM.

Given some indication that maybe the cops were not incompetent, they were effectively complicit, then it WOULDN'T MATTER what laws were on the books, would it?

And you focus on the liArs portion, instead of the fact that more "gun-control" in a corrupt government is a horrible fucking idea.

Everyone clamoring for more laws/rules should think about what these allegations really mean.

Snake-Eyes said:

????

Every libtard snowflake wants to blame the gun or scream that more laws are needed, and the rest of us are trying to point out that the laws already exist, IF ONLY THE SPINELESS PEOPLE INVOLVED WOULD USE THEM.

Given some indication that maybe the cops were not incompetent, they were effectively complicit, then it WOULDN'T MATTER what laws were on the books, would it?

And you focus on the liArs portion, instead of the fact that more "gun-control" in a corrupt government is a horrible fucking idea.

Everyone clamoring for more laws/rules should think about what these allegations really mean.

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I'm almost certain that you wont find a post from me arguing for more rules or laws. In fact, I argued against this very thing here:

Droshki said:

This article recommends banning bump stocks, which would make criminals out of tens of thousands of Americans that own them, unless, what, they turn them in for confiscation? It omits this particular part.

And in the end how many crimes were they used in. One?

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and here:

Droshki said:

I'm with FLT on this one. While I appreciate the sentiment,

1. There are already laws in place.

2. It's a slippery slope that could lead to prosecutions of parents that may also leave the car keys laying around, or the liquor cabinet unlocked.

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and argued here:

Droshki said:

Well, actually, we kind of do:

Asked what Mr Peterson should have done, Sheriff Israel said: "Went in, addressed the killer, killed the killer."

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and here:

Droshki said:

The deputy's legal obligations are to me anyways, irrelevant.

He had a moral obligation to give his all to try to save those kids (and adults).

I can think of a dozen member on here right off the top of my head, that would not have hesitated a single moment to do so.

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That the SRO cop, among other people, should have simply done his job.

Droshki said:

I'm with FLT on this one. While I appreciate the sentiment,

1. There are already laws in place.

2. It's a slippery slope that could lead to prosecutions of parents that may also leave the car keys laying around, or the liquor cabinet unlocked.

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My understanding is that he and his younger brother were adopted and raised by his mother. She recently died. So, the parents are out of the issue.

Parents can be held responsible if a child under the age of 16 gets a hold of one of the parent's unsecured firearms.

Three additional Broward County deputies stayed outside and refused to enter the building, even after the shooting stopped. The Coral Spring's PD officers went in to locate the gunman and aid any wounded. Then the BSO tried to take credit for doing what the Coral Spring's officers did. I think the Sheriff is done, and hopefully will resign soon. His department is a shambles. 39 calls and the kid was still out there. Two more calls that were scary in nature and no action taken at all. The resource officer freezes for 4 minutes while the shooter has target practice. Three more deputies fail to go in to find the shooter and render aid to the wounded. Then the bastard tries to pretend that his officers actually did the scary hard work that the Coral Springs cops did.

BTW, as I have said before, it is clearly the guns fault that all of the LEO failures occurred.

Jeb21 said:

Three additional Broward County deputies stayed outside and refused to enter the building, even after the shooting stopped. The Coral Spring's PD officers went in to locate the gunman and aid any wounded. Then the BSO tried to take credit for doing what the Coral Spring's officers did. I think the Sheriff is done, and hopefully will resign soon. His department is a shambles. 39 calls and the kid was still out there. Two more calls that were scary in nature and no action taken at all. The resource officer freezes for 4 minutes while the shooter has target practice. Three more deputies fail to go in to find the shooter and render aid to the wounded. Then the bastard tries to pretend that his officers actually did the scary hard work that the Coral Springs cops did.

BTW, as I have said before, it is clearly the guns fault that all of the LEO failures occurred.

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Like I told you earlier, this entire department is toast.

As in the military, results like this are only obtainable when leadership is ...corrosive.

It appears now that the entire department was rotten from the top down.

This is my shocked face :doh:

Snake-Eyes said:

????

Every libtard snowflake wants to blame the gun or scream that more laws are needed, and the rest of us are trying to point out that the laws already exist, IF ONLY THE SPINELESS PEOPLE INVOLVED WOULD USE THEM.

Given some indication that maybe the cops were not incompetent, they were effectively complicit, then it WOULDN'T MATTER what laws were on the books, would it?

And you focus on the liArs portion, instead of the fact that more "gun-control" in a corrupt government is a horrible fucking idea.

Everyone clamoring for more laws/rules should think about what these allegations really mean.

Click to expand...

Snake Eyes, I think you confused Droski for me. A totally understandable mistake. We do look alike, except I am far prettier and much more modest.

Seriously, I was advocating an expansion of the restraining order to cover situations like Cruz where the officers are concerned the person is unstable and violent but have no effective way of arresting or Baker acting him. I spoke with several deputies here locally and apparently, calls about potentially violent unstable folks are not uncommon (even here in NW Florida where only sane and stable people live) Most of the time the calls are just another "cry wolf" scenario, but there are cases where the subject is potentially violent and unstable and all would be safer if something could be done to separate them from any possible gun ownership, even if that step is temporary in nature.

Looks like their entire tactical training consisted of "make sure you go home to your families at the end of the shift". Which doesn't necessarily surprise me. I mean how many times have they repeated that this is their only goal?

And yes, gentlemen, its a shift, like any other shift worker has a shift. It is not a "Tour Of Duty". Its so embarrassing for them that they've corrupted this term.

If they want to act and talk like they are they are "hard military dudes", they should join the infantry.

No confusion, but it doesn't matter.

Our internal discussion here on a gun forum will not influence the politicians in Tallahassee or D.C. They will continue to be swayed by the squeaky wheels yelling the loudest on social media.

Disgustingly disappointing... but no longer surprising.

I see corruption of police officers as one of the lowest and despicable betrayals of trust out there. Military, LEO, fire fighters, EMTs... it's a sacred trust to be the "one called on for help" during a person's most horrible and dire state of need. To betray that is just sickening.

However, the facts remain: there are avenues in-place that could've stopped this coward. Those opportunities were pissed away, sometimes in a very intentional way.

As for the local LEO you spoke with, I find it difficult to believe that if there is a no-kidding suspicion of intent to harm or danger to the public, that nothing can be done. The first time they're called to a domestic disturbance, maybe. By the 39th time, holy cow, are they trying to collect frequent-driver miles?

To clarify: I'm sickened more by the apparently systemic "look the other way" betrayal, than the single failure to act appropriately.

The SRO's inaction is disheartening, disappointing, and tragic, but that is one single event. An entire department and/or multiple departments/counties allowing events to go ignored and covered up, leading up to this kind of inevitable conclusion? That's the real problem.

As evidenced by the other info pointed out: that the other deputies also failed to go inside. Sure, the SRO was first available, but his entire department is looking more and more incompetent.

Yeah, I've filled out more than my share of forms when purchasing a firearm and I remember there's being a question about involuntary admittance to a mental health facility. Which would be baker act, no? Or am I remembering wrong?
Or is the question window dressing?

Also, droshki is many things, and sometimes he can seem annoying or even arrogant, but he's really consistent. So unless things have changed recently, he's more worried about falling tv's than active shooters or terrorism. I'll bet he thinks the proper course of action is "we should worry about more relevant threats, that we can actually do something over". Which means not try and ban stuff that millions of people legally own and the overwhelming majority manage to not use for terrorism(that he happens to own his fare share of), over something that's statistically very rare. But all that's just a guess, I trust he will correct me if I'm wrong, it wouldn't be the first or last time.

Snake-Eyes said:

To clarify: I'm sickened more by the apparently systemic "look the other way" betrayal, than the single failure to act appropriately.

The SRO's inaction is disheartening, disappointing, and tragic, but that is one single event. An entire department and/or multiple departments/counties allowing events to go ignored and covered up, leading up to this kind of inevitable conclusion? That's the real problem.

As evidenced by the other info pointed out: that the other deputies also failed to go inside. Sure, the SRO was first available, but his entire department is looking more and more incompetent.

Click to expand...

Yeah man. Pretty much a systematic failure. Everyone shit the Bed. It's almost impressive.

Snake-Eyes said:

To clarify: I'm sickened more by the apparently systemic "look the other way" betrayal, than the single failure to act appropriately.

The SRO's inaction is disheartening, disappointing, and tragic, but that is one single event. An entire department and/or multiple departments/counties allowing events to go ignored and covered up, leading up to this kind of inevitable conclusion? That's the real problem.

As evidenced by the other info pointed out: that the other deputies also failed to go inside. Sure, the SRO was first available, but his entire department is looking more and more incompetent.

Click to expand...

So an entire police department was incompetent and dishonest.

And I just got up off my fainting couch. I better lie back down.

MAXman said:

Yeah man. Pretty much a systematic failure. Everyone shit the Bed. It's almost impressive.

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Yea, couldn't have turned out worse if they had rehearsed. That IS impressive.

But they'll be lined up just like the rest for another MRAP or other "tactical" gear. And telling their neighbors how "tactical" they were during their "tour of duty".

MAXman said:

Yeah, I've filled out more than my share of forms when purchasing a firearm and I remember there's being a question about involuntary admittance to a mental health facility. Which would be baker act, no? Or am I remembering wrong?
Or is the question window dressing?

Also, droshki is many things, and sometimes he can seem annoying or even arrogant, but he's really consistent. So unless things have changed recently, he's more worried about falling tv's than active shooters or terrorism. I'll bet he thinks the proper course of action is "we should worry about more relevant threats, that we can actually do something over". Which means not try and ban stuff that millions of people legally own and the overwhelming majority manage to not use for terrorism(that he happens to own his fare share of), over something that's statistically very rare. But all that's just a guess, I trust he will correct me if I'm wrong, it wouldn't be the first or last time.

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So you're right, you've known me for some time now. I dont want to stray to far into the terrorism angle, because some people here get SO ANGRY when the thread veers off in directions that they don't personally approve of. But yea, lots more people died in America from television falls or bathtub drownings than from Islamic terrorism over the last decade. Yea, there are a few crazy's running around, and its terrible when they pop up, but we helped create them and their numbers simply aren't that significant. But we gots to keep Boeing, NG, and LM in business, so lets keep running around like crazy folk with our hair on fire.

Anyways, to the subject: You are correct, I dont believe another gun law, or banning bumpsotcks, or any other silliness would affect the school shooting issue at all. This kid could have gotten a weapon a million different ways. Cant cover them all. Crazy trumps logic and careful planning every single time.

Nor do I think that hardening the schools would make a differences. 6 foot barbed wire fence? I'm in my 50s. Give me a blanket and I could be over it in 60 seconds. Crazy AF lunatic 18 year old isn't even going to need a blanket. So what are going to do, turn them into Federal max look-a-likes? Man traps and vehicle traps? Seismic sensors? Gun towers?

Also, I've already demonstrated that the armed guard thing is prohibitively expensive. I know someone on here attacked me over that post, like I personally am objecting to the cost? Sheesh, I've been watching billions fly out the governments's door for decades, and agreeing with very little of it. If I thought it would make a difference, Id be down with it. No its not ME. Its your fellow Americans that aren't willing to spend $5 trillion a year on this. They simply don't care that much. Arming teachers that are already there? This has the weakness of SWAT bumping up into them. Anyone that's been in combat knows that if weapons and scared people are involved, anything that could go wrong almost certainly will.



Only thing I'd advocate for is hiring honest and competent people that ware willing to do the job they're getting paid for. But even that seems, impossible.

There was an interesting article about why Israel has no school shootings even though there are many openly carried guns in the community. One point the journalist made was the security at the schools.

EDIT Found the article - the other point was that privately own guns are not permitted until the civilian is 27 yoa

https://www.washingtonpost.com/worl...5838ad0d77a_story.html?utm_term=.afb68fb81201

Jeb21 said:

There was an interesting article about why Israel has no school shootings even though there are many openly carried guns in the community. One point the journalist made was the security at the schools.

EDIT Found the article - the other point was that privately own guns are not permitted until the civilian is 27 yoa

https://www.washingtonpost.com/worl...5838ad0d77a_story.html?utm_term=.afb68fb81201

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I was under the impression that Israelis keep their weapons issued to them in the military since they are all reservists up till around 60 y/o.

I was there in 1990 and 1993 during Intefada I & II. On our second visit in '93, it was like the wild west, every one in Haifa was armed...military, folks walking their kids, Mom pushing the stroller, Dad had a rifle at sling arms....ALL bus drivers were armed. Their Attorney General told folks via TV interview to 'shot first, ask questions latter' due to intefada.

WOW !! Just watched an interview by CNN Jake Tapper of Broward Cty. Sheriff Israel.
Tapper absolutely ripped him a new asshole. Great questions,put him on the spot,made him answer,forced an answer,etc,etc.
The sheriff refused to take any responsibility whatsoever. Tapper was obviously pissed.
Fox News . . . where have you been. Guessing . . the sheriff probably refused and interview by Fox because he knew that he would get the hardball questions. Then he agreed to an interview by Tapper of CNN thinking he would be treated sweetly.
Lemme tell ya gentlemen . . . DIDN'T HAPPEN. Good going CNN. --- SAWMAN

Link to CNN Trapper/Israel interview referenced by Sawman:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=GfGJ_SRcBSE

Just heard that Gov. Scott is gonna "launch an investigation" into what happened with the several law enforcement agencies that were/are FUBAR.
MY crystal ball tells me - - -> NOBODY will go to jail,get sanctioned,get fired,get demoted. Everyone will simply "RETIRE".
Something else - - -> I do not watch the local news much so possibly I am missing something . . BUT . . would have thought that the parents in Escambia County would demand a meeting. On stage sits the Superintendent of Schools,the principle of the school,and the Escambia County Sheriff. In the audiance sits the parents of the school kids.
The parents ask: WHAT ARE YOU PEOPLE DOING TO KEEP OUR KIDS SAFE ??? ---- SAWMAN