-
Please read the new forum rules! REQUIRED!
Click Here: https://www.gulfcoastgunforum.com/threads/general-forum-rules-code-of-conduct.70770/
-
New Reloading Sticky Thread for Trading, Swapping Gear, etc.
https://www.gulfcoastgunforum.com/threads/reloading-components-for-trade-item-value-and-photo.104847/
Wrong apartment....
- Thread starter IronBeard
- Start date
The #1 community for Gun Owners of the Gulf Coast States
Member Benefits:
Fewer Ads! Discuss all aspects of firearm ownership Discuss anti-gun legislation Buy, sell, and trade in the classified section Chat with Local gun shops, ranges, trainers & other businesses Discover free outdoor shooting areas View up to date on firearm-related events Share photos & video with other members ...and so much more!
Member Benefits:
Bowhntr6pt
Master
See below...
Last edited:
Bowhntr6pt
Master
My son and I just discussed this incident, he is in the AF and asked me what I thought. Not having any additional info I told him it looked like a screw up on the cops part and that's when my son said he watched the BC footage.
I just watched the video... tough one... they announce SHERIFF's OFFICE twice, he opens the door holding a gun... predicable outcome. Cops did not burst into the apartment as the article stated.
ETA- the officers look they were offset from the door, tactically sound, which means if the deceased looked out the peep hole he would not see anyone.
The article says the officers "burst into the wrong unit"... the lawyer for the family just made an inaccurate statement. But it's Ben Crump... looking for a pay out.
I just watched the video... tough one... they announce SHERIFF's OFFICE twice, he opens the door holding a gun... predicable outcome. Cops did not burst into the apartment as the article stated.
ETA- the officers look they were offset from the door, tactically sound, which means if the deceased looked out the peep hole he would not see anyone.
The article says the officers "burst into the wrong unit"... the lawyer for the family just made an inaccurate statement. But it's Ben Crump... looking for a pay out.
Last edited:
Rational Mind
Expert
It all just adds fuel to the fire. I don't see how the opinion most of the public holds toward law enforcement can change without some major changes within the system itself. YouTube channels like The Civil Rights Lawyer, Here's The Deal, and so many others highlight so many atrocities committed by poorly trained officers and the double standards exhibited by some of their superiors have honestly caused a big portion of John Q Public to fear and hate law enforcement. The good cops should have stood up to the bad cops more and held them to account before it was allowed to get to this point. What can be done to change public opinion at this point ????
Here's my thing, it's not illegal to answer your door holding a gun, even if it's the police (which he probably did not hear/know it was). You don't shoot someone for having a gun, you shoot them if they point the gun at you or try to attack/shoot you first. No matter how you look at it, the police messed up on this, wrong door/house, shooting a guy who was unrelated to the OG call/issue, and shooting someone "with a gun" who was not a threat to them or brandishing the firearm at them.
Just a bad situation overall.
Unless further info/footage comes out I have yet to see.
Just a bad situation overall.
Unless further info/footage comes out I have yet to see.
Last edited:
Bodhisattva
Marksman
It's also not illegal to not answer the door. What would have happened had he not answered the door?
Bowhntr6pt
Master
This thread will go the way all the others do...
Not illegal... but pretty d@mn stupid especially when someone on the other side of the door is yelling SHERIFF'S OFFICE in the middle of the day.
Your assertion about not being justified in shooting someone holding a gun is a broad blanket statement and demonstrates your lack of knowledge and understand on use of force. You do not have to be shot at or have it pointed at you to be justified... it's a totality of circumstances analysis. There's clear case law on this.
Not defending either party here... just letting readers know these things get messy real fast... sometimes there is no absolute correct answer or legal analysis, and there will always be two differing opinions. At first, I thought the cops screwed to pooch, then my son called me and we discussed it. After watching the BC footage... yep, predictable results. Not the first time and won't be the last.
If I were one of the cops involved I'd be looking for a lawyer to sue Mr. Crump... he has released a public statement contrary to fact and truth... 1) the cops did not rush into the apartment as he stated and 2) the cops announced twice also contrary to Mr. Crump's statement. Both are inflammatory in nature.
If I were one of the cops I'd be devastated knowing I shot a young man who made an arguably bad decision. My heart aches for all involved.
This is in no way near a cut and dry case either way...
ETA- keep in mind... there's what we think is right/wrong, and what the law says id right/wrong... they often conflict.
Bowhntr6pt
Master
If it were my call... I'd leave absent any other credible information that PHYSICAL VIOLENCE had taken place.
As a Supervisor, I've instructed officers to leave under the exact same circumstances.
Bowhntr6pt
Master
Similar incident here where I live...
www.wesh.com
Judge rules in favor of deputy who shot, killed man in 2012
A U.S. District judge tossed out a wrongful death lawsuit filed by the family of a man gunned down by deputies who knocked on the wrong door.
www.wesh.com
Im curious, what good does it do announcing "Sheriff's Office"? I don't need to open the door for that, but if they announce Sheriff's Office with a Search Warrant" then I do need to open the door.
Do I just ignore the Sheriff or Police at my door unless they also announce they have a search warrant?
Do I just ignore the Sheriff or Police at my door unless they also announce they have a search warrant?
Bowhntr6pt
Master
Public attitudes and opinion are shaped by legitimate bad things cops do along with the misunderstand of law, which due to ignorance thereof, leads people to believe there is a problem when there really isn't one. It's also geographically centered.
Here, where I work, I can't walk into Publix and back to my car without three to five people thanking me for what I do. If I sit down in a crowded restaurant during lunch, there's a fair chance someone unknown to me will pay for my meal.
Bowhntr6pt
Master
If they announce they have a warrant... unless you want to buy a new door, I suggest you open the door.
Announcing is part of the identifying process, which can have a legal impact on the situation, as demonstrated by the incident being discussed.
no woryz
Marksman
Its going to be interesting how this one turns out... I wasn't there so I cant speak of facts.. none of us were.... however... you cannot defend killing an innocent civilian while hiding behind a badge.... Until negligent homicide charges are levied onto the stupid people who make these decisions the bad cops will always tarnish the good cops...
Bowhntr6pt
Master
No one is hiding behind a badge and defending anyone.
Maybe you should research the legal findings in the case I mentioned...
Rational Mind
Expert
Look at the comments.
Bowhntr6pt
Master
Bowhntr6pt
Master
Like the saying goes... when it comes to decision making in a pinch or stressful situation, sometimes your choices are bad and worse... but you have to make a choice.
Flip the coin... seeing as some want to play the what if game... what if the officer hesitated a second or two and the Airman shot the deputy... would the crowd cite poor training, poor tactics, etc.? Action vs. reaction is a real thing. I see the armchair QB'ing will be very strong as it usually is.
All I can say about the incident is it's a predicable outcome when cops go to a disturbance or call, or one suggesting violence, and someone appears in one way or another armed.
Funny how people expect human behavior to be flawless...
ETA- there are some good videos out there of police critics taking F on F training. Some of you all might want to take a look at that and see what reality holds. Some of you might want to dabble in a little scenario-based Force on Force training just to see the flip side of the coin.
There are PLENTY of first-time folks with clean records who unexplainably tried to kill an officer to the bewilderment of all. I suppose some of you carry a crystal ball.
I want to say that recent head shot the cop took on that teenager during a traffic stop is an example... I don't think that kid had a record yet he exited his vehicle and tried to shoot the cop.
Flip the coin... seeing as some want to play the what if game... what if the officer hesitated a second or two and the Airman shot the deputy... would the crowd cite poor training, poor tactics, etc.? Action vs. reaction is a real thing. I see the armchair QB'ing will be very strong as it usually is.
All I can say about the incident is it's a predicable outcome when cops go to a disturbance or call, or one suggesting violence, and someone appears in one way or another armed.
Funny how people expect human behavior to be flawless...
ETA- there are some good videos out there of police critics taking F on F training. Some of you all might want to take a look at that and see what reality holds. Some of you might want to dabble in a little scenario-based Force on Force training just to see the flip side of the coin.
There are PLENTY of first-time folks with clean records who unexplainably tried to kill an officer to the bewilderment of all. I suppose some of you carry a crystal ball.
I want to say that recent head shot the cop took on that teenager during a traffic stop is an example... I don't think that kid had a record yet he exited his vehicle and tried to shoot the cop.
Last edited:
Rational Mind
Expert
I doesn't matter what any of us think. The lawyer clearly stated Supreme Court precedence and this will be judged by public opinion.
no woryz
Marksman
yea, i get that... its no worries to make bad life/death decisions when your not held accountable... you damn well bet I expect more from law enforcement, why dont you?? ...just watched the video and its unforgivable.... I will always get pissed about the LEO mentality of judge, jury, & executioner of innocent people.. there's a lot of things that deputy should be responsible for if he is granted a license to kill... we all know that the leo community will circle the wagons around him and blame the airman & the lady the deputy listened to & tell us that's it was tragic but unavoidable given the circumstances and the deputy acted as he was trained and we'll all be pissed & shaking our heads in amazement just like we do when the Dem's say elections are fair and honest.. local law is getting as bad as federal law... and thats disgraceful...
