Trapping

[Droshki]

Calm down. Not that kind.

Here is the F-35C launching and trapping aboard the USS Nimitz. 148 traps were completed during this evolution.


[video]https://youtu.be/eomkBzwhV48[/video]

 

[Famine]

Never understood why the Navy agreed to a single engine aircraft - twins - lose one and keep flying - single - lose one - bail out, get wet and hope for the best. F35 certainly has not been the cost savings aircraft it was intended to be.

 

[Droshki]

Agree with the first statement. However, I was not aware the F-35 was ever advertised as a cost saving aircraft (except in the context of logistics, and the skyrocketing costs of maintaining older airframes such as the Harrier, etc).

It is however, an order of magnitude more capable than anything else in the sky. I welcome all to delve into the open source material about the jet. To understand it's complexity and capabilities, is to understand it's cost.

 

[Famine]

Common parts and maintenance equipment for the three variants were to reduce cost over the life of the program. Now more than a decade late and an estimated $170 billion over budget for just the acquisition of the planned 2500 aircraft fleet - the savings offset in the operational costs (total estimate for purchase and O&M for the life cycle is 1 Trillion) is reduced.

Is the aircraft worth it - I guess it better be - with the Defense budget in the situation it is in - there is no opportunity at this time for a do over.

 

[FrankT]

1 engine saves gas as obama has ordered the Military to go green, then they will only be allowed to fly on M-W-F

 

[Droshki]

Common parts and maintenance equipment for the three variants were to reduce cost over the life of the program. Now more than a decade late and an estimated $170 billion over budget for just the acquisition of the planned 2500 aircraft fleet - the savings offset in the operational costs (total estimate for purchase and O&M for the life cycle is 1 Trillion) is reduced.

Is the aircraft worth it - I guess it better be - with the Defense budget in the situation it is in - there is no opportunity at this time for a do over.

Right. Cost savings were promised in logistics and maintenance. Nobody said the airframe was going to be anywhere near cheap. That's just not possible if you want fifth generation aircraft technology. Have development and production costs overrun thier estimates? Ceartinly. But what weapons program in the last 40 years hasn't? (P-8 people will tell theirs hasnt, but they "rebaselined" it multiple times to cover it up). For one thing, software development costs are notoriously hard to estimate-- and this aircraft is planned to have over 8 million lines of code in it.

 

[Famine]

It is what it is - there is no going back. Budget situation is similar but not as bad as the F22 in terms of cost over runs but decisions are being made on the number of delivered aircraft and reductions in other areas. This program was "rebaselined" in 2010/11 and the Govt PM fired. DoD broke it's own rule of 'Fly before you Buy' on the F35 - P8 is built on the 737-800 airframe with 737-900 wings so minimal aircraft dev cost - just modification/mission customization .

DoD has to make smart choices - what type of warfare are we most likely to engage in and what do we need to invest in to deter or if necessary to win. Do we need to face a Russian invasion of our NATO allies - and their overwhelming tank number superiority, radical Islamist terrorists, China and our Asian allies - North Korea, Iran?

Only so many dollars in the budget and the Department needs to spend them wisely. That's all I am saying..hard choices and I am neither smart enough or knowledgeable enough to know what the right ones are.

 

[Droshki]

Well my intention in posting the link to the video was simply to show interested people that the program had recently achieved a meaningful milestone/capability. I'm ceartinly not qualified to discuss defense spending priorities or anything like that.

 

[gendoc]

oh...sorry. I thought yall were talk'n real trapping......:yawn:

 

[Famine]

Sorry to side track your OP Droshki - but any major weapons system that is years late and billions over budget is a hot button for me. I was concerned with the F35 from the beginning - 1 size fits all - knowing the potential for logistics savings - but dealing with the wide variation in mission capabilities needed...$500K helmets...just hope it delivers what is needed for those that need it.

Well my intention in posting the link to the video was simply to show interested people that the program had recently achieved a meaningful milestone/capability. I'm ceartinly not qualified to discuss defense spending priorities or anything like that.

 

[Droshki]

Hey, those helmets are cool as hell. And work now. Kinda, lol.

Cost has probably tripled though.

 

[Snow Bird]

Why in the hell does the Marines want one to take off stright up. Bet you this will be a joke like the Harrier. Should have scrapped that model of a good airplane.

Of course the Gen in charge is trying his best to stop the cost over runs. Bet that is the first time that has ever happened.

 

[MAXman]

The marines want something that can take of from sea, move fast, and then sit in midair and dump a holy shit load of pain onto something.
That something being identified and directed by marines on the ground, in some shit hole third world country they probably shouldn't be in.


Close air support snow bird. It's quiet likley the reason I'm ruining this board for you gentlemen tonight.

 

[Snow Bird]

Maxman,If you do some reserch on the Harrier it was a failure from start to finish for the Marines. I have been in discusions with people before that were Marines that beleaved the bullshit that was put out to there troops and it was just Bullshit from any way you want to look at it.

Do some real resurch on it and you will see. It cant hover with a shit load of anything and it's ground support roll was only a dream in real life. Was almost impossable to fly and by now half there fleet has crashed.

Ground maintance was a nightmare and most of there aircraft were grounded more than they flew. BAD IDEA.

 

[MAXman]

You were just asking why they would want that kind of aircraft. Besides, I think it's thenonlynperson Arnold ever flew so obviously everything else is a girly plane.


You've basically outlined how I feel about the v22 osprey.

 

[Snow Bird]

What they want if fine but I really don't think it will work out very well in the real world. Hell they were haveing problems with the tires even when they tried to land it stright down,as shone on national tv.

Don't even get me started on the osprey unless they have worked alot of the bugs out on it.

 

[NCTransplant]

I have seen 4 Harriers with full fuel and guns/ammo take off in 1600 ft. 400 interval combat takeoffs. Perhaps that is a plus for the harrier, extremely short takeoffs even with a load. I have been around harriers most of my adult life, I have seen lots of damage, and lots of.....ingenious mechanical fixes if you will. But when Marines are in contact, they don't worry about the bullshit. Its a proven fighter, saving many lives throughout its lifespan. Also, not that this is extremely relevant, but as far as a dog fighter is concerned, the Harrier is hard to beat with its in highly maneuverable airframe.

 

[Snow Bird]

The Harrier may well be a short take off and do that well but the good ends there. Close air support was stopped because the ones that haden't already crashed were being shot down to easy. They did do ok with lazer guided stuff because they weren't close to the ground.

As far as a dogfighter is concerned where did you read or see that and could you give me a link that showes them in dog fights? Any country in the world that has anything less than 50 years old would shoot them down.

The new aircraft may well work out if they don't try to use it for close air support and be easyer to fly with new computer systems but the name of it should tell you something. FIGHTER or stand off with it's missles.

 

[Droshki]

 

[Droshki]

Unfortunately, the Harrier was no longer sustainable. We bought all the UKs old ones for parts, but after that.....

UK sells 72 retired Harrier jump jets for $180m to US