Scope alignment

[Zeroed in]

Anyone here professionally or near qualified to align and sight a scope? I've been trying to align my Leupold on a T/C Encore 7mm-08 barrel.
I'm using the laser dot cartridge to bore sight the scope. Except my x-hairs are about 1/4" high and to the right of the laser dot.
I re-mounted the scope base, adjusted the scope ring base, so as the scope is in fact laying evenly in the trough, w/o any binding of the scope tube
when mounting it.
So, do you think it will be okay to turn the windage/elavation up'teen zillion times to align it to the laser dot? I'm thinking not, and maybe it will throw my
round off at a distance?
So, we're back to the beginning. Anyone here have a ring base aligning tool, or professionally installs scopes?

 

[Zeroed in]

Oh, and I think that the scope base mounting holes are not drilled perfectly in the center of the barrel, which may be causing the misalignment of the crosshairs?
And if so, this will defineatly cause a round to miss at a long distant shot, right?
Maybe someone has a mill that can re-drill the holes, or at least check to see if they are in fact drilled straight/dead center of barrel.

 

[Mullet Hunter]

I've got two Encores, their is nothing wrong with the mounting holes in the barrel. Align your crosshairs, tighten the scope down, put your laser in it follow the instructions, and turn the turrets windage, and elevation umpteen zillion times until your crosshairs are on the laser. You don't have a problem with the mount until you bottom out, or back out the turrets completely. I had a leupold on a muzzle loader once that was 1/4 turn from bottoming out, but I got her zeroed...

 

[wildrider666]

Whoa!!!! Where are you located? If your within striking distance of PCB, I would be glad to put a a bore sight on it. No charge. It is much better then the bore laser. Bore lasers are good to a point but they are just to get you on paper not necessarily into the bulls eye. Bore sights will get you closer. You must remember that the gun and round are gonna put the round where it wants and you will have to fine tune from there. I don't know your level of expertise but if your trying to make up the distance between the C/L of the bore and the C/L of the scope at a short distance you will run out of clicks or worse break the scope. Lets keep it simple. Your scope is the pivot point for all adjustments. Even if the mounting holes were off a 1/4 inch you should be able to make that up without a problem. Its a one piece base right? Mounted in the right direction? No burrs on the bottom of the mount? Are the screws drawing tight? Any movement when mounted?

a. New scope? Did you centered the cross hairs V & H? Factory new does not always mean factory centered! Is the scope used or from another of your gun and it is retaining the last adjustments?

b. What is your set up laser distance: scope to target? If you a 1/4 high at 25 yards: no prob. You will be one inch high at a hundred yards. You do not say how far right the the CH are from the dot? Again if at 25 yards, if your eight inches right: you would be 32 inches right at 100 yards and your round would fly way off to the left. On your scope: 1 click = ? (1/8, 1/2, 1/10).

1. Center the cross hairs by turning the adjustment until you hit the stop. Do this slowly and feel for any resistance beyond the norm "click": STOP when you feel resistance. Now go the other way and count every click until you hit the other stop. Total clicks divided by two gives you "X" the number of clicks to be on center: Write it down!!!. Click back to center. Some scopes have more V adj then H. Check both, use "Y" for the second. Now the CH are truly centered. See how they compare to the laser dot.

2. Adjust by as many clicks as it takes to get on the laser dot as long as you don't feel resistance. Count the clicks as you go. Subtract this number from "X" and "Y" above and you will know how much adjustment range remain until you bottom out. We do this to make sure you have "extra" clicks avail for fine tuning on the range.

3. Test scope adjustment repeat-ability. Starting with the CH on the laser dot and in this order: 8 clicks up, 8 clicks right, 16 clicks down, 16 clicks left, 16 clicks up, 8 clicks right and 8 clicks down. Your CH should be back on the laser dot if the scope works fine.

4. GO shoot a round at 25 yards. If it looks good: go shoot at 100. My bet is you will be on the paper.

Good luck
WR

 

[D_Shane]

Don't asume laser is centered either. You can rotate it with your finger and watch it dance a circle around your crosshair. You shouldn't have to turret adjust that far once you get the scope set in right. Follow above first and center crosshairs. Then go from there. Small imperfections add up quick. May need to shim, or lap rings. Where are you located? Someone here nearby could give you a hand.

 

[Zeroed in]

I've got two Encores, their is nothing wrong with the mounting holes in the barrel. Align your crosshairs, tighten the scope down, put your laser in it follow the instructions, and turn the turrets windage, and elevation umpteen zillion times until your crosshairs are on the laser. You don't have a problem with the mount until you bottom out, or back out the turrets completely. I had a leupold on a muzzle loader once that was 1/4 turn from bottoming out, but I got her zeroed...

Hey J, give me your barrel and you take mine, if it's a 7mm-08. lol I'm betting your barrels have only 2 screws holes, right? Mine has 6. Two (2) are almost middle way up, probably for a rear open sight?, and Four (4) of them are right at the breech, topside. And these do not look Factory drilled to me. Almost Positive, not factory. If they are, they must've been drilled on a Monday, as the machinist was probably on a hangover.

 

[Zeroed in]

Thanks Wildrider. Nowhere near you 100+ miles away. But that's very informative. I'll try the CH set as you said, just to ensure that's correct and maybe not the mount alignment. As far as the mount, it's a weaver base mount, brand new, and looks/appears to be no defects in it. And the scope rings are the same. They are the twist and lock type. I have those aligned perfectly. The scope will lay in the trough w/o "sticking", (binding).
I'm thinking those tapped holes are out of wack by a few """ hairs, causing the mount to be misaligned so slightly. But this tad bit of misalignment can cause the impact to be off who knows how much at 100-400yds. So this is why I was hoping someone, or someone knows a good smith that can align it, or at least look at those rear holes to ensure they're drilled properly.

 

[wildrider666]

I still say get it as close as you can without doing any modifications and go shoot it. All this bore/scope alignment is just to get you in the ball park. Only consider mods if you run out of clicks or you won't have enough clicks for long range changes. Take another gun with you so if the mount is still screwed up you can still have a good shoot.

Shim adj works for vert. adj. but with the laser it is less precise. With a bore sight you have a grid to work with to check the fine adjustments you make. You can buy shim material that is in layers form and remove layers until you get what you need, If you use aluminum tape, alum foil or beer can shim: coat them so it does not cause corrosion for dissimilar metal contact. A layer of clear packing tape will also work o protect the receiver/barrel.
If you need to adjust the mount horizontally on a FLAT receiver: have the scope centered. Install one base mount screw (that is not under the rings). Assemble the rest. tweak the base as needed for "H" zero. tighten the one screw and recheck. Remove the rings and scope and view the holes and the relation to the receiver barrel this will tell you how material much you need remove while elongating the holes with a jewelers file. You will need to back fill the empty space so the mount doesn't move back. new space you can simply elongate the front or rear mount hole. A mount on a curved barrel surface is much more difficult.as you can not pivot the base on the screw axis. Some ring styles may be modified or shimmed on one side (at the bottom to "tilt" the rings) which will move the CH on a curve but you will get left/right correction and still have full contact between the base and the barrel.

The worst mount I ever had to fix was a B Square single screw mount on a M-14. I had re-mill the entire mating surface and tap/thread three adjustment screws. I should have just sent it back and made one from angle iron and saved a lot of time and $70 bucks.

Zeroed in: Give us an update so were not just spinning our wheels out here. Can you tell us specifically what scope you are using and the magnification, it would help.
Thanks.
WR

 

[Zeroed in]

Well, I'm gonna start working on it again. The scope is a 3x9x40, Leupold Rifleman, New out of the box.

 

[bobinbusan]

What base are you using?
Warne Bases may be the way to go if you have problems, http://warnescopemounts.com/ :thumb:

 

[SAWMAN]

Hopefully this gentleman has the problem ironed out by now. Just gotta comment though that I have,in the past,seen lots of people having troubles with them cartridge type bore sighters. Waaaay too many variables involved. ESPECIALLY if used on a bbl without the frame as I have seen many people do. Even with a frame that locks up tight there could easily be a headspace and/or oversized chamber problem.

The good part of this is that the T/C bbls can quite easily be bore sighted with a 1/2 inch orange dot taped on the wall at about 25ft and a cardboard box with a "V" cut into it. Simply look down the bore and adjust the scope. REMEMBER that you are trying to make the scope look where the centerline of the bore is looking.

Super easy, and I can get the first shot on paper at 50yds every time. Sometimes "low tech" works just fine. --- SAWMAN
EDIT TO ADD: In all my years or working on T/C's and owning quite a few of them,I have NEVER seen a single bbl mis-drilled and tapped.

 

[Bloodhound]

I've got two Encores, their is nothing wrong with the mounting holes in the barrel. Align your crosshairs, tighten the scope down, put your laser in it follow the instructions, and turn the turrets windage, and elevation umpteen zillion times until your crosshairs are on the laser. You don't have a problem with the mount until you bottom out, or back out the turrets completely. I had a leupold on a muzzle loader once that was 1/4 turn from bottoming out, but I got her zeroed...

If you are 1/4 turn from bottoming out then some where some thing is off. you need to check every thing out because a good scope mount will not be screwed up like that.

 

[Zeroed in]

Sawman was right. I believe my cartridge sighter was off, not sure tho? I pulled the Leupold mount off, re-installed it and the scope. Cartridge sighter showed it still off. I made adjustments as Wildrider suggested. Still off, but aligned the x-hairs to center of red dot on wall. Went to my range, and 2 shots I was in the bullseye, 3rd shot was centered after a minor windage adjustment.
I believe it was a culmination of the mount, scope rings (which I used a stright edge to ensure they were absolute square), and the Cartridge laser sighter, (made in china). But the cartridge sighter was and still is showing the x-hairs to be 1.5" low and right. ??
But it did get me on the paper. Moreso from Wildriders directions. Thanks guy.

 

[Burnt Drag]

It's great to have the wisdom of Wildrider and Sawman on here. We're lucky to have you guys.

 

[oneshot]

I'll regret this but, why don't you throw the bore laser away and do the way it should be done, do real bore sighting, it takes the guess work out of it, I know I don't know what I;m doing, but we didn't always have laser's, and have been doing this for 50+ yrs. IF this doesn't work you have problem. And I do have a mill and Forester jig. just my 100 cents jj

 

[Ken232]

I Do mine the old fashioned way still when I can...set target 50 yards out LOOK down the bore and set bore to center of target then set crosshairs to target. That gets ya on paper and then u can fine tune from there.

 

[SAWMAN]

I'm not any smarter than you guys....just have more expierances...some good...some bad. But have tried to learn for both.

Glad you got your problem solved. NOW...I'll sell you a 500S&W bbl for that T/C then invite you out to my range and help you sight it in. I absolutely love them heavy "pushers". --- SAWMAN

 

[Zeroed in]

Oh no, not wanting a 500. but wouldn't mind a .260 or .270 barrel. I'll put those on my WL, don't need either one, but wouldn't mind 1.

Ken, that Old Fashioned way will work on single shot and bolt guns, but not auto's. Besides, that cartridge sight worked, got me on paper, but sure didn't match up with the x-hairs.

 

[oneshot]

Wil work on AR's to just my2 cents jj THERE other to do other auto, jj

 

[M.O.A.]

Bear in mind also that because a laser is in the center of the bore its approximatly 1.5" below the crosshairs. If you are zeroed on the laser at 20-30 yards you're going to be really really surprised where the bullet goes. Oh, never mind the fact that the laser may or may not be centered in the bore...take it to the range and shoot it in. 3 shots to zero and then go hunt. If you don't know how, pm me I'm in Milton.