Myth or Fact? 5.56 was designed to wound.

[Hot Iron]

Bore diameter difference is a big factor in a controlled test like this. Two different diameters and two different lengths, big variables. Still shows the difference in the power of the rounds.

Yeah , the Gold Medal Match is not a high performance round especially out of a 16 inch barrel and the water jug offers little resistance to it .

 

[72sofsme]

great sorce for basic terminal balistic understanding ...

Terminal Ballistics

 

[72sofsme]

Yes, who doesn't like a good read relating directly to the topic. Also another great source of information on other cartridges than I'm sure many of us have used.

.223 Remington

 

[GeoW]

I've heard this story for years. The 5.56 was chosen due to the wounding capability of the round. The premise is that it takes people off the battlefield, ( one wounded, 2 to drag away) burns up resources ( medical, medical supplies, housing of wounded) and instills fear into combatants. ( wounded yelling, screaming etc.)

Kill first, wound second!

 

[Geriatric Collector]

Myth. During World War II it was estimated that 45,000 rounds of small arms ammunition was fired to kill one enemy soldier. In Vietnam the American military establishment consumed an estimated 50,000 rounds of ammunition for every enemy killed. By those estimations, soldiers were slightly less combat effective in Vietnam compared to WW2. Each 30-06 round (M1 ball) weighed approximately 11.2 grams where the 5.56 weighed approximately 4 grams. Calculating average rounds to kill and average round weight, it would take 532,000 grams (1,172 lbs.) of ammunition to kill an enemy in WW2 vs 190,000 grams (418 lbs.) in Vietnam due to the lower weight of each round. Thus combat loads and combat effectiveness increased as well. Of course, these calculations in this scenario would assume that each enemy was killed only by those respective calibers. In the First Cav division in early May 1969, the standing order at the time was each infantry soldier would carry 3 bandeliers of M16 ammo each. That is 7 magazines per bandolier. Each magazine was loaded with 18 round which equates to 378 rounds or just over 3 lbs. of ammo. If the same number of rounds were used for 30-06, the weight would be over 9 lbs. but standard loadouts usually take weight into consideration. In WW2, the average solder carried 10 eight round clips with another 6 clips in a bandolier for a total of 128 rounds or just over 3 lbs. of ammo. No surprise there. So, just based on the numbers, each infantryman carried approximately 3 lbs. of ammo and based on the number of rounds fired was more combat effective with the M16 than they were with the M1 Garand based on weight regardless of caliber "stopping power". NOTE: This analysis is based on gross generalizations on average infantry small arms combat loads using only one caliber per conflict where in reality multiple loads and calibers were used.

 

[seandizzie]

Myth. During World War II it was estimated that 45,000 rounds of small arms ammunition was fired to kill one enemy soldier. In Vietnam the American military establishment consumed an estimated 50,000 rounds of ammunition for every enemy killed. By those estimations, soldiers were slightly less combat effective in Vietnam compared to WW2.

Question. Does this include training and all the stuff that " fell off the truck". Or expended in combat?

 

[Gumby Hunter]

JMO and no proof to back it up. I would say there’s never been a round made to just wound

 

[Geriatric Collector]

Question. Does this include training and all the stuff that " fell off the truck". Or expended in combat?

In World War II, U.S. factories cranked out, along with mountains of other munitions, about 41.4 billion rounds of small-arms ammunition, enough to enable soldiers to take about ten shots at every man, woman, and child alive on earth at that time. Why so much ammo? Yes, it is true that some was used in training. However, it was mostly due to the fact that combat tactics require soldiers to move forward to take ground and the only way they can do that with any chance of survival is to have fire teams engage the enemy with 'suppressive fire' where marksmanship is not as important as rate of fire. Suppressive fire keeps the enemy from returning accurate fire and allows friendly troops the ability to take more valuable ground. The majority of this ammunition was carried into the field and expended and this is why combat load (weight) is always a concern to soldiers. Also, we cannot look at ammunition in a combat scenario as a tool used only for taking life, but a tool used for allowing troop movement. The M16's strength and its purpose of development was its light weight and its ammunition was designed around that same principle - lighter combat loads thereby improving combat effectiveness.

 

[Jhunter]

Check out these guys using non lethal force. It sounds like 30 grains going 600 fps. I would say this is shooting to wound.
I don’t want to get hit with anything especially at 3000 fps. Velocity kills.

 

[DAS HUGH!]

Check out these guys using non lethal force. It sounds like 30 grains going 600 fps. I would say this is shooting to wound.
I don’t want to get hit with anything especially at 3000 fps. Velocity kills.

Iraqveteran8888's buddy on the show did a clone of the 22 sniper setup they used during this. Its a cool setup! They used to skip buckshot off pavement too. There's likely video of that I bet too. But.. each time they tried this they had deaths to some degree. Then they got wood and rubber bullets. I've even seen 40mm rubber/gas/ and flares get lodged into people's eyesockets in nearly every riot that happens lol. What are the odds of that!

 

[72sofsme]

JMO and no proof to back it up. I would say there’s never been a round made to just wound

The shotgun beanbag load was designed for stun and door breaching if I’m not mistaken .
Now, would it kill … a hammer can kill but that what it was designed to do.

 

[72sofsme]

Iraqveteran8888's buddy on the show did a clone of the 22 sniper setup they used during this. Its a cool setup! They used to skip buckshot off pavement too. There's likely video of that I bet too. But.. each time they tried this they had deaths to some degree. Then they got wood and rubber bullets. I've even seen 40mm rubber/gas/ and flares get lodged into people's eyesockets in nearly every riot that happens lol. What are the odds of that!

 

[DAS HUGH!]

There it is! Man I'd love to have a build like that! I have a Begera 1022 carbon fiber 10/22 I use with a big can on the end but it's no where the same as that. I think since it's integrated it turns the supers into subs. That would be awesome and save a ton of money. The rig in the video is a fun compact little setup!

 

[Gumby Hunter]

The shotgun beanbag load was designed for stun and door breaching if I’m not mistaken .
Now, would it kill … a hammer can kill but that what it was designed to do.

I do stand corrected! Had forgotten about the bean bag

 

[72sofsme]

I do stand corrected! Had forgotten about the bean bag

All good, I'm not chuck'n spears, just sharing some knowledge when i can with what I have left.