Four Leos Killed in Charlotte

[Welldoya]

While serving a warrant and Schumer is hollering for an AWB.

 

[Pompnewbie]

While serving a warrant and Schumer is hollering for an AWB.

Meanwhile LEO'S smoke the wrong house during a no knock raid, and nothing but crickets.. or no body cams during the incident

Sent from my SM-S901U using Tapatalk

 

[Rebel_Rider1969]

They went after a hardened criminal and the result was as suspected. Not every suspect is a purple haired Karen. It's unfortunately their job to be in harms way. Where's the uproar for troops killed in foreign shit holes?? Fighting bullshit meaningless proxy wars where the only winners are the millionaire crooks in office or their billionaire buddys.

 

[Rebel_Rider1969]

@no woryz

 

[G-rat]

doode that killed the members of an inter-state anti-gun task force was a felon with a firearm, arrested before on same charge and warrant being served was for same charge again... sounds like these officers were unfortunately victims of their own failed system that cost them their lives. most of the officers hadn't worked together before so no training together to breed teamwork, familiarity and tactics as a unit. this is VERY clearly a failure of our courts yet AGAIN. i feel bad for the families but theres much to take away from this encounter, good, bad or otherwise.

 

[BluesBrother]

While serving a warrant and Schumer is hollering for an AWB.

Despicable. I cringe every time news such as this comes out.

 

[stage20]

4 other officers were injured. Shooter is dead.
"Powerful AR-15 rifle pierced body armor with rapid bursts of fire"

 

[Bowhntr6pt]

doode that killed the members of an inter-state anti-gun task force was a felon with a firearm, arrested before on same charge and warrant being served was for same charge again... sounds like these officers were unfortunately victims of their own failed system that cost them their lives. most of the officers hadn't worked together before so no training together to breed teamwork, familiarity and tactics as a unit. this is VERY clearly a failure of our courts yet AGAIN. i feel bad for the families but theres much to take away from this encounter, good, bad or otherwise.

I would LOVE to have a look at their pre-operation briefing and threat assessment, if there even was one. I'd also like to know if the did dry runs on a mock location prior to... I know when I was a SWAT Team Commander we would certainly do so... and did many times an hour before kick off.

I don't want to bad mouth the dead... but I highly suspect the operational plan and execution wasn't commensurate with the threat potential.

This is part of the reason why I relinquished command of a SWAT Team. Prayers to the friends and families of the fallen.

ETA- some years ago, I was summoned to the Sheriff's Office where four guys from the USMS were waiting, they were wanting a couple uniformed officers to go with them to execute an arrest warrant on a guy withy similar charges like the guy in this incident. The target had also recently posted videos of an illegally converted AK type rifle firing in full auto mode. This guy had also bragged he will never go back to prison.

This reminded me of the incident in 2011 in St. Petersburg where two cops were killed and a USMS guy wounded by a guy with an AK who was hiding in the attic... his girlfriend tried warning the LE team but they ignored her warnings.

I politely but firmly refused... I told my Administration this was not the job for four USMS personnel and two or three uniformed patrol folks. When asked why... I step by step broke down the known and unknown facts surrounding the target, the charges, and the environment in which the warrant would be served... when articulated in that fashion it painted a better picture so I told them it would require a SWAT response... they agreed. We took the guy into custody w/o incident, he said when he saw the BearCat show up and guys in camo dismounted in all directions he knew he was done.

I've had to do this several times throughout my career. I'm just glad I work for people who will listen and respect what I have to say.

 

[stage20]

I read another article that said they didn't have a chance because the shooter was on the 2nd story. A neighbor filmed some of it. Has them taking cover(have not seen video). Neighbor needs to put her phone down before she gets killed herself if it's true.

 

[M60Gunner]

Seemed like 2 shooters. A guy on the ground taking immediate reaction and a second shooter picking them off from a covered location. Very bad situation they were obviously not prepared for.

 

[Rebel_Rider1969]

Seemed like 2 shooters. A guy on the ground taking immediate reaction and a second shooter picking them off from a covered location. Very bad situation they were obviously not prepared for.

And as things continue to spiral out of control this will continue.

 

[Beached]

How do you prepare for a hidden high power rifle waiting to ambush you?

 

[FNHman]

doode that killed the members of an inter-state anti-gun task force was a felon with a firearm, arrested before on same charge and warrant being served was for same charge again... sounds like these officers were unfortunately victims of their own failed system that cost them their lives.

That is why we should be able to hold judges, lawyers, parole board, etc responsible for the system letting these repeat violent crimals out on the streets. Lock up or capitol punishment for these traders of the system that let them back out.

 

[Bowhntr6pt]

How do you prepare for a hidden high power rifle waiting to ambush you?

That's a very fair question. The truthful and realistic answer is... it depends on many factors.

First off, the tactical plan to apprehend someone should be based on many factors, way too many to go into on the internet. That's not a BS answer... it's real and accurate.

I will say this... if someone is "hidden" AND "waiting" on you upon your departure, then your tactical plan has already failed before you left the parking lot.

A great example is Waco... the target rarely if ever left the compound... BATFE was quite foolish to execute a dynamic warrant service and the results were quite predictable. Those tactics are "theory based" and don't really work out well yet some teams still use them.

If we were fact to face having a couple bourbons I could explain better... for now, this will just have to do.

 

[G-rat]

That's a very fair question. The truthful and realistic answer is... it depends on many factors.

First off, the tactical plan to apprehend someone should be based on many factors, way too many to go into on the internet. That's not a BS answer... it's real and accurate.

I will say this... if someone is "hidden" AND "waiting" on you upon your departure, then your tactical plan has already failed before you left the parking lot.

A great example is Waco... the target rarely if ever left the compound... BATFE was quite foolish to execute a dynamic warrant service and the results were quite predictable. Those tactics are "theory based" and don't really work out well yet some teams still use them.

If we were fact to face having a couple bourbons I could explain better... for now, this will just have to do.

tactics in theory vs real world stacking up is VERY different for sure. those old tactics are no longer viable in the now time frame. tactics need to be updated by real world door kickers to prevent further, tragic loss of life. ALL of us could use some better team tactical training and fall back theory.

 

[Bowhntr6pt]

tactics in theory vs real world stacking up is VERY different for sure. those old tactics are no longer viable in the now time frame. tactics need to be updated by real world door kickers to prevent further, tragic loss of life. ALL of us could use some better team tactical training and fall back theory.

When I took over the SWAT Team it was a slight up hill battle to change the tactical mindset of the guys that had been on the team longer than I. All they knew was various dynamic entry techniques in either read or no-read systems.

Thankfully, egos were not a major factor and most maintained an open mind. That along with "lessons learned" from the early days of the GWOT and the evolving lessons paved the way for better tactical plans an approaches.

A good many teams now use better tactics, but unfortunately, not all have made the mental and tactical switch.

 

[G-rat]

When I took over the SWAT Team it was a slight up hill battle to change the tactical mindset of the guys that had been on the team longer than I. All they knew was various dynamic entry techniques in either read or no-read systems.

Thankfully, egos were not a major factor and most maintained an open mind. That along with "lessons learned" from the early days of the GWOT and the evolving lessons paved the way for better tactical plans an approaches.

A good many teams now use better tactics, but unfortunately, not all have made the mental and tactical switch.

man we need to sit down and rap bud, or get some members together to pool ideas and train... wish you were closer to the central time zone goons.

 

[Bowhntr6pt]

man we need to sit down and rap bud, or get some members together to pool ideas and train... wish you were closer to the central time zone goons.

I have a 60' x 40' two story structure with a stairs. It's a wide open floor plan where you could easily hang sheets to make "rooms" and hallways for Force on Force training fun with SIMS/Airsoft/Paint Ball.

I also have a great place/range for working with Night Vision.

At one time I was willing to invest funds in the necessary gear to offer both F on F classes and NV classes BUT... I learned people talk a good game until it's time to pull the wallet out. Unfortunately, that stuff isn't cheap.

A while back I made a small investment in NV, lasers, and IR lights to help people get a taste of the technology and see just how much fun NV operations and shooting can be. Posted some classes... crickets for the most part... shame. Glad I was reserved in my purchases.

Now that ammo is kind of costly, it's got worse.

 

[G-rat]

I have a 60' x 40' two story structure with a stairs. It's a wide open floor plan where you could easily hang sheets to make "rooms" and hallways for Force on Force training fun with SIMS/Airsoft/Paint Ball.

I also have a great place/range for working with Night Vision.

At one time I was willing to invest funds in the necessary gear to offer both F on F classes and NV classes BUT... I learned people talk a good game until it's time to pull the wallet out. Unfortunately, that stuff isn't cheap.

A while back I made a small investment in NV, lasers, and IR lights to help people get a taste of the technology and see just how much fun NV operations and shooting can be. Posted some classes... crickets for the most part... shame. Glad I was reserved in my purchases.

Now that ammo is kind of costly, it's got worse.

sending PM

 

[M60Gunner]

My comment on the scenario was not meant to mean you can necessarily plan your way out of an ambush, rather, the preplanning threat assessment should have at least considered it. Hard to tell from the videos but it appeared the officers thought this would go a very different direction. Meaning we will show up in force with gear and they’ll be scared into compliance. Obviously a fatal mistake. At least two of the deceased were parole officers. I would have to ask how much dynamic entry EST type training they had? Was this one of those “your now a fed for this raid only” type deals? They were transported to my brothers hospital and he had to stay several hours over his shift as the marshals service had all the exits locked down.