Braced Pistols to become SBR's starting in December?

[Daezee]

I'm not entirely straight on that statue.
You reside in Florida and have an SBR tax stamp. Are you now going to destroy your SBR? Federal trumps state law. Will anyone in Florida even care? Still can't comprehend what's legal.

"(3) Firearms in violation hereof which are lawfully owned and possessed under provisions of federal law are excepted."

SBR's are illegal in Florida, but if lawfully owned (that is they are not stolen and you are not prohibited from owning) and possessed under provisions of federal law (that is it is federally registered to you or your trust or your company or government entity via a Form 1 or Form 3 or Form 4 or Form 5 or Form 10 or you are federally licensed to make such items), then you, your trust, company, or government entity have an exception to SBR's are illegal in Florida and are free to possess such items with no penalty.

Now, under the rules for registering your braced pistol, you will have a copy of the Form 1 you submitted, which ATF says will suffice as proof until the approved Form 1 is sent to you. There will be no $200 tax stamp affixed to the approved Form 1 since there is no tax to be paid during this registration. Note that Florida statues don't say anything about a tax stamp, that's because, depending upon the Form, there might be no tax liability. Example: Form 5's have no tax liability...that form is used for transfer from an estate to an individual who inherited a NFA item.

Typical law speak: This WHATEVER (it might be) is illegal, but the illegality does not apply under THESE (whatever they may be) circumstances. Let me try an example: It's illegal to carry a firearm into a court room, BUT if you are law enforcement carrying out your duties, you are an exception to that law.

 

[stage20]

"(3) Firearms in violation hereof which are lawfully owned and possessed under provisions of federal law are excepted."

SBR's are illegal in Florida, but if lawfully owned (that is they are not stolen and you are not prohibited from owning) and possessed under provisions of federal law (that is it is federally registered to you or your trust or your company or government entity via a Form 1 or Form 3 or Form 4 or Form 5 or Form 10 or you are federally licensed to make such items), then you, your trust, company, or government entity have an exception to SBR's are illegal in Florida and are free to possess such items with no penalty.

Typical law speak: This WHATEVER (it might be) is illegal, but the illegality does not apply under THESE (whatever they may be) circumstances. Let me try an example: It's illegal to carry a firearm into a court room, BUT if you are law enforcement carrying out your duties, you are an exception to that law.

I appreciate your detailed response Bruce, but I willl go back to my initial simple statement of an SBR is legal in Florida with a stamp.

dont confuse me. Its easy. Lol.

 

[JWlineman]

Specific hypothetical...let's say one submits a stripped lower thru a Form 1 and it doesn't get approved within the 120 day period? Hypothetically this lower is on a "pistol build" and now we're in limbo until the courts decide what's lawful and what's overreach? There's still quite the "grey zone" in this whole debacle...as much as I've read and watched on this situation, it's still hard to explain to the non-gun family/friends

 

[Daezee]

A "stripped lower" is not registerable or applicable during this 120 day period, as a stripped lower doesn't have a brace or barrel attached, thus you have no way to list its currently existing caliber, bbl length, and overall length. Now during a "normal" time in which you want to submit a Form 1 to MAKE and register a SBR and pay the $200 tax you would state on the Form 1 the caliber, bbl length, overall length and (I think, not having done a Form 1 in years) the specific engraving of your name, city, and state abbreviation that you intend to do/assemble/buy parts for/have done once the Form 1 is approved. This 120 day period is for existing braced pistols that up to May 31, 2023 have been legal to have as-is.

Note: In my response, I am assuming "stripped lower" means a lower receiver with no parts attached.

Note: In no way do I think that ATF has the power to magically change a pistol into a rifle, SBR or otherwise, as the 1934 law excluded pistols.

 

[JWlineman]

Daezee thanks for the response and that's the point of the question that I've been asked as well. This whole "intent" thing likely has no bearing in a court room but could pose a "sticky situation" for a lot of people.

 

[Daezee]

Now what could happen during this 120 day period is someone could have a non-braced pistol they’ve been thinking about doing a taxed Form 1 to make a SBR. So they attach a brace and photograph it to prove it exists and take measurements for the amnesty registration. They never intended to keep or put a brace on it, but see the opportunity for a tax free registration and not having the hassle and expense of having their name, city, state engraved on the firearm. After approved, they will be attaching a real stock. They tell no one of their plan. Of course it might be hard to come up with an attaching brace with little to no time. Since many are playing What If, this is my What If contribution.

 

[Snake-Eyes]

…. This 120 day period is for existing braced pistols that up to May 31, 2023 have been legal to have as-is. …

Important correction: any “existing braced pistols” that would need the 120-days are considered SBR’s right NOW. The 120-days until May 31st are just to get the paperwork submitted, but if you took your braced Glock to the public range and an ATF agent asked to see your tax stamp paperwork, the go-to-jail answer would be “Oh, I plan to submit the paperwork by May 31st.“. Because, as of NOW, if the firearm doesn’t meet their new rule, it’s considered an SBR… Now. Not June 1st. Now.

So either put a 16” barrel on it, remove the brace such that you can‘t reattach it, turn in the gun, destroy the gun, or apply for one of these special “amnesty” Russian-Roulette-Felony Form-1’s.

Daezee thanks for the response and that's the point of the question that I've been asked as well. This whole "intent" thing likely has no bearing in a court room but could pose a "sticky situation" for a lot of people.

Now what could happen during this 120 day period is someone could have a non-braced pistol they’ve been thinking about doing a taxed Form 1 to make a SBR. So they attach a brace and photograph it to prove it exists and take measurements for the amnesty registration. They never intended to keep or put a brace on it, but see the opportunity for a tax free registration and not having the hassle and expense of having their name, city, state engraved on the firearm. After approved, they will be attaching a real stock. They tell no one of their plan. Of course it might be hard to come up with an attaching brace with little to no time. Since many are playing What If, this is my What If contribution.

The last FAQ and insomnia-cure verbiage I read from this fiasco said that the braced problem-child had to exist configured when the rule was published. Not the next day or on day 119 of the amnesty-trap.

If it was a stripped lower on 31JAN, then it technically can’t be amnesty Form-1’d. The 120-days is supposed to be for paperwork filing of existing “felony-firearms” or configuration changes (?).

There isn’t any room for “intent” in their new intra-office memo “rule”. They made us felons overnight, and we got to scramble to “comply” before any Barney Fife with an AFT badge saw something out in public.


Best wishes to those who play their game and risk a Form-1 denial and insta-felony. I don’t trust them.

FJB.

 

[Kruegerhouse]

You people still discussing this nonsense?? Screw the ATF.

 

[Raven]

You people still discussing this nonsense?? Screw the ATF.

Good luck and God bless. See you on the other side

 

[Kruegerhouse]

Good luck and God bless. See you on the other side

Some of these same guys will be rationalizing and trying to figure out how to stay ”legal” when “assault weapons” or certain pistols get banned. Some don’t have a line in the sand. I’m certainly not jumping through hoops or even making any concessions. I saw a meme the other day. Something toward the ATF, telling them to stack up or eff off. I agree.

 

[JWlineman]

 

[stage20]

Saw that video yesterday and lost the link. Not sure how far that will go

 

[JWlineman]

A whole lot of BS...as with most things the fed touches

 

[Misfeed]

All of my brace Form 1s came back approved.
Filed Feb 1, last one came back April 6th. If only Form 4 suppressors had that kind of turnaround.

 

[M60Gunner]

Looks like there will be no stubbies. Taking the brace off to leave just the tube won’t work and we now see the uniparty will never stand up against the continuous overreach. Understand why people are rushing to sell them now

 

[Gingershooter]

All of my brace Form 1s came back approved.
Filed Feb 1, last one came back April 6th. If only Form 4 suppressors had that kind of turnaround.

You do individual or have a trust?

 

[Misfeed]

All individual

 

[Jester896]

All of my brace Form 1s came back approved.
Filed Feb 1, last one came back April 6th. If only Form 4 suppressors had that kind of turnaround.

IIRC the ones I got... for the ones that actually have a rifle stocks.... was about 6 weeks...seem to be right on time...I think they are done by 2 different divisions.

 

[Jevaughn]

Looks like there will be no stubbies. Taking the brace off to leave just the tube won’t work and we now see the uniparty will never stand up against the continuous overreach. Understand why people are rushing to sell them now

From what I understand a slick tube is fine, it just can't have the slots for an adjustable brace/stock. I may be wrong, but slick buffer tubes do not count as stock/brace and do not have enough surface area on the end to be considered a shoulder contact. It's purely something for the buffer tube to work in.

 

[Rebel_Rider1969]

I wonder where the spade grip equipted AR fits into this debacle? Wonder if a 10.5 chair leg could be used? Overall lenght would be over 26 and no grip.