Are all AR pistol owners fixing to become felons ???

[FrommerStop]

I hunt all the time with my AR pistol. The kill is with an 8" 6.8, I know run a 10.5 7x62x39 all good to150 maybe 200yds

What load do you run in the 10.5 7x62x39 ?

 

[Rebel_Rider1969]

I hunt all the time with my AR pistol. The kill is with an 8" 6.8, I know run a 10.5 7x62x39 all good to150 maybe 200yds

Hey frank, I picked up some 196gr subs the other day. X39

 

[Bowhntr6pt]

Well... you can thank the thousands of Youtube videos posted as an "in your face" statement to the ATF. Same with bump-stocks.

Sometimes it is just better to be quiet and enjoy vs. advertising to the world.

 

[stage20]

Well... you can thank the thousands of Youtube videos posted as an "in your face" statement to the ATF. Same with bump-stocks.

Sometimes it is just better to be quiet and enjoy vs. advertising to the world.

But idiots.

 

[stage20]

IF you were to own these and IF they were banned then you can mail them somewhere or to someone and have them mailed back once resolved.

you could open a PO Box and mail them to yourself. Pick them up every month and remain them.

This isn't a state ban. It will be a federal ban. Whoever you send them to becomes the felon. Hope it doesn't come to all that.

 

[ccc]

Well... you can thank the thousands of Youtube videos posted as an "in your face" statement to the ATF. Same with bump-stocks.

Sometimes it is just better to be quiet and enjoy vs. advertising to the world.

agreed

 

[FrommerStop]

Hey frank, I picked up some 196gr subs the other day. X39

Do they function the action of an AK?

 

[wildrider666]

Leave the buffer tube in place, but remove the brace from it if it comes to that. Put the brace where it can not found. This only applies for the moment to the honey badger brace and perhaps to similar products made by the manufacturer of that brace.

JMO, I believe that's incorrect. The Honey Badger has been specifically identifed as a GCA/NFA SBR and the "Reciever" (both Upper/Lower to fit legal definition or Serialized Reciever as commonly recognized) of all Honey Badgers will remain a Classification as SBRs regardless of what is done to them short of De-mil type destruction. I think there is a misconception because the Items aren't NFA Registered they can be something else by removing, changing and separating parts (by distance and physical control) to avoid "constructive possession".

I read Q's msg with recommendations and still disagree that seperating uppers/lowers/braces changes the ATFs Classification Decision that "Honey Badgers" are SBRs: your just using the "SBR Classified Receiver" in a different configuration. It's no different than taking a NFA Registered SBR and putting a 20 inch barrelled upper on it: your just in a different configuration but the Receiver is still a Registered SBR. If a person desired to transport this reconfigured SBR to another State, Notifications are still required because the Receiver will always be a "SBR".

Qs Dear Customer Letter of Oct 6, 2020 has that little legal disclaimer at the bottom of the first page followed by ATFs position that the Honey Badger is a SBR.

Owners will do what they need to do. YMMV

 

[Bowhntr6pt]

It's no different than taking a NFA Registered SBR and putting a 20 inch barrelled upper on it: your just in a different configuration but the Receiver is still a Registered SBR.

I read Q's msg with recommendations and still disagree that seperating uppers/lowers/braces changes the ATFs Classification Decision that "Honey Badgers" are SBRs: your just using the "SBR Classified Receiver" in a different configuration. It's no different than taking a NFA Registered SBR and putting a 20 inch barrelled upper on it: your just in a different configuration but the Receiver is still a Registered SBR. If a person desired to transport this reconfigured SBR to another State, Notifications are still required because the Receiver will always be a "SBR".

A registered SBR not in SBR configuration is nothing more than a rifle. Form 5320.20 is not required IF the upper has a 16" or longer barrel attached. The lower being registered isn't the issue, the configuration of the rifle is.

 

[Bowhntr6pt]

Can I put a upper with 16" plus barrel on an SBR lower? - AR15.COM

Firearm Discussion and Resources from AR-15, AK-47, Handguns and more! Buy, Sell, and Trade your Firearms and Gear.

www.ar15.com

BigWaylon is extremely knowledgeable on NFA and FFL stuff.

 

[FrommerStop]

JMO, I believe that's incorrect. The Honey Badger has been specifically identifed as a GCA/NFA SBR and the "Reciever" (both Upper/Lower to fit legal definition or Serialized Reciever as commonly recognized) of all Honey Badgers will remain a Classification as SBRs regardless of what is done to them short of De-mil type destruction. I think there is a misconception because the Items aren't NFA Registered they can be something else by removing, changing and separating parts (by distance and physical control) to avoid "constructive possession".

I read Q's msg with recommendations and still disagree that seperating uppers/lowers/braces changes the ATFs Classification Decision that "Honey Badgers" are SBRs: your just using the "SBR Classified Receiver" in a different configuration. It's no different than taking a NFA Registered SBR and putting a 20 inch barrelled upper on it: your just in a different configuration but the Receiver is still a Registered SBR. If a person desired to transport this reconfigured SBR to another State, Notifications are still required because the Receiver will always be a "SBR".

Qs Dear Customer Letter of Oct 6, 2020 has that little legal disclaimer at the bottom of the first page followed by ATFs position that the Honey Badger is a SBR.

Owners will do what they need to do. YMMV

Speed read what you wrote and if I got it right, once an SBR, always and SRB. It is that way for a machine gun receiver.
Well if the ATF has the serial number for the lower receiver knew it had a honey badger upper, then you may be right. With me they only could know that I have a lower that was purchased as I think it is called an other. They do not know what upper or butt stock or brace that I have put on it if any. ATF regulations, especially now days that they can change at the drop of a hat, you could be right.

In my thinking I was considering if they declared all pistol ARs with braces to be SBRs. With of the ATF chicanery about, I am looking into 12 pump shotguns. America is on the path to craziness and not to be capable of self defense is unwise.

 

[Fear21]

I'm not 100% on this but I've heard it enough times to be curious... weren't pistol braces originally intended to help disabled veterans (or disabled people in general) continue to shoot their firearms if they had some sort of issue with their arms? ADA smackdown, anyone?

 

[Rebel_Rider1969]

Uh,oh....my 16 inch barreled pistol...

 

[FrommerStop]

I'm not 100% on this but I've heard it enough times to be curious... weren't pistol braces originally intended to help disabled veterans (or disabled people in general) continue to shoot their firearms if they had some sort of issue with their arms? ADA smackdown, anyone?

Yes that was the reason and I would think that the honey brace complies that aspect of the law.

 

[wildrider666]

I can read other forums chatter but don't see a Legal Reference from a Gov source that states a NFA Registered SBR Receiver "magically isn't" controlled as one when the "other parts" attached to it change its appearance to a "normal 16 inch barrelled rifle".

ATF E-Pub 5320.8 Apr 2009 (PDF download) States This publication is not a Law Book.

On page 2, ATF Rulings are "interpetations". Rulings do not have the force and effect of Law but may be cited as precedent......

On page 22, it references removal of firearms from the scope of the NFA by modifications/elimination of components. The examples provided infer "permanent change" with disposal and welding. Shifting "control" of a part (hold it for me till I want it back later) or swapping an upper temporarily doesn't meet that permanent requirement IMHO.

On page 25, Status of unregistered firearms may not be registered and legitimized by their possessors. They are contraband and unlawful to possess. It also refers to modification/elimination of components as above. There is no mechanism to register an unregistered NFA Item nor prosecution for not registering it (Case Law Hayes and Freed). Possession of a unregistered NFA Item is the Crime.

In keeping with the "permanent modification" to remove NFA Status is documentation. See Section III at First Link. Read in it ALL. If you change a Registered NFA SBR to non-NFA then reconstruct it: you are NOW Manufacturing a NFA SBR. I comprehend what may be being done on the streets. If your position is change the upper and it's no longer NFA: then you are Manufacturing when you change it back to a SBR. If you say it remains a NFA Item with the longer barrelled upper: you must still comply with applicable Laws to its NFA status such as possession, transport and transfer. Under the Law it is one or the other and can't be both. The simple solution is to comply with all applicable Laws to its NFA classification regardless of "configuration of the Day" because your not permanently modifying it and don't want the NFA manufacturing liability when you "build it into a SBR".

Removal of Firearms from the National Firearms Act

Removal of Firearms from the National Firearms Act By Teresa G. Ficaretta, Esq. and Johanna Reeves, Esq. This article appeared in Small Arms Review in July 2017. Legally Armed: V21N7 Many of our readers are very familiar with

www.ficarettalegal.com

Anothe legal reference to a Sample letter to remove SBR/SBS from NFRTR:

BATFE Letter Requesting Removal of a SBR/SBS from the NFRTR

Below is a generic letter that can be sent to the BATFE when an individual wishes to convert a Title II firearm (short barreled shotgun or short barreled rifle) back into a Title 1 firearm. If you …

blog.princelaw.com

I'm not a duty expert on the NFA. The references support my opinions. I'm more than happy to see Legal documentation posted to the contrary.

 

[FrommerStop]

Once a new AR receiver is sold as a rifle, it can not legally accept a pistol upper is my understanding. However if I got it right a pistol can be made into a rifle. Anyone know the facts on this.

 

[donr101395]

Jerry, a better question would be, who would use an AR pistol to hunt with?

A better question would be why do they need to hunt with it?
FWIW I don’t have a problem hunting with my SBRs or pistols.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Duckyou]

I can read other forums chatter but don't see a Legal Reference from a Gov source that states a NFA Registered SBR Receiver "magically isn't" controlled as one when the "other parts" attached to it change its appearance to a "normal 16 inch barrelled rifle".

ATF E-Pub 5320.8 Apr 2009 (PDF download) States This publication is not a Law Book.

On page 2, ATF Rulings are "interpetations". Rulings do not have the force and effect of Law but may be cited as precedent......

On page 22, it references removal of firearms from the scope of the NFA by modifications/elimination of components. The examples provided infer "permanent change" with disposal and welding. Shifting "control" of a part (hold it for me till I want it back later) or swapping an upper temporarily doesn't meet that permanent requirement IMHO.

On page 25, Status of unregistered firearms may not be registered and legitimized by their possessors. They are contraband and unlawful to possess. It also refers to modification/elimination of components as above. There is no mechanism to register an unregistered NFA Item nor prosecution for not registering it (Case Law Hayes and Freed). Possession of a unregistered NFA Item is the Crime.

In keeping with the "permanent modification" to remove NFA Status is documentation. See Section III at First Link. Read in it ALL. If you change a Registered NFA SBR to non-NFA then reconstruct it: you are NOW Manufacturing a NFA SBR. I comprehend what may be being done on the streets. If your position is change the upper and it's no longer NFA: then you are Manufacturing when you change it back to a SBR. If you say it remains a NFA Item with the longer barrelled upper: you must still comply with applicable Laws to its NFA status such as possession, transport and transfer. Under the Law it is one or the other and can't be both. The simple solution is to comply with all applicable Laws to its NFA classification regardless of "configuration of the Day" because your not permanently modifying it and don't want the NFA manufacturing liability when you "build it into a SBR".

Removal of Firearms from the National Firearms Act

Removal of Firearms from the National Firearms Act By Teresa G. Ficaretta, Esq. and Johanna Reeves, Esq. This article appeared in Small Arms Review in July 2017. Legally Armed: V21N7 Many of our readers are very familiar with

www.ficarettalegal.com

Anothe legal reference to a Sample letter to remove SBR/SBS from NFRTR:

BATFE Letter Requesting Removal of a SBR/SBS from the NFRTR

Below is a generic letter that can be sent to the BATFE when an individual wishes to convert a Title II firearm (short barreled shotgun or short barreled rifle) back into a Title 1 firearm. If you …

blog.princelaw.com

I'm not a duty expert on the NFA. The references support my opinions. I'm more than happy to see Legal documentation posted to the contrary.

If it was Me - I would put the upper on another pistol lower - it is an AR pistol.

remove the “brace” from the lower and ship to someone else.

And then:
1. wait until after the election and further clarification/legal decisions before reassembling.

or

2. File to manufacture an sbr on the lower and get the reimbursement.

or

3. both of the above.

 

[Bowhntr6pt]

I can read other forums chatter but don't see a Legal Reference from a Gov source that states a NFA Registered SBR Receiver "magically isn't" controlled as one when the "other parts" attached to it change its appearance to a "normal 16 inch barrelled rifle".

What constitutes a SBR?

There is your answer. If you choose to be more cautious, that's fine too.

Again, this has been beat to death for years and as of right now, a registered SBR lower with 16" + barrel is not an SBR for NFA purposes.

https://princelaw.files.wordpress.com/2012/12/transport-a-title-ii-as-a-title-1-across-state-lines.pdf

You're welcome.

 

[Sgump]

Dog ate mine