A win for "We the people" the Feds back down to the citizens.

[joe]

That slavery is in any way comparable to free people living on welfare.


I am all for smaller government both State & federal. I try not to follow any cause blindly & this is guy is a perfect example. If I believed this guy had any legal right to the land I would be cheering his case. IMO he has non.

 

[FrankT]

It is as far as I am concerned, they are enslaved to the system set up to keep them in line...well slaves did have to work, now they don't so maybe this en-slavery is better...either way they are not FREE

 

[joe]

I will have to disagree but not worth debating.

Have a good weekend Frank!

 

[FrankT]

We can agree to do that..thanks you too!

 

[Seanpcola]

Just askin'

 

[Droshki]

Capitol Police Probing Threatening Statements Against Harry Reid

Federal law enforcement officials are investigating threatening statements made in recent days against Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid, a Capitol Police spokeswoman said.

Lt. Kimberly Schneider, the USCP spokeswoman, declined to share information related to "our security posture" - the number of Capitol Police officers assigned to Reid's security detail. She did not specify the nature of the threats.

What is sad is that these people didn't do their due diligence before putting their lives and freedom on the line for this, and my guess is that ultimately some of them will end up doing real federal prison time for their actions.

Don't think for a second that the FBI hasn't run every licence plate that was there, and then used facial recognition software with drivers licence photos to put names to every person on site.

 

[Droshki]

In addition, for those no longer following this story (and I don't blame you since this guy has now thoroughly demonstrated what a crackpot he is), the BLM has sent him several registered letters offering to let him keep his cattle and land if he will step up and pay his past due grazing fees ($1.1 M) and the government's costs of enforcement ($900 K). However, since he does not recognize the federal government existing (despite riding around on his horse carrying the United States flag for various photo opportunities), he has refused up open the letters.

Can't say that he wasn't offered every opportunity to not lose everything he owns. He's also likely to spend what's left of his life in federal prison, to top it off.

 

[FrankT]

Bundy owes them nothing, I would not pay them squat, just government over reach!

Stupid on the Reid threat, better to just do it and not threaten, but either way we don't need to kill the politicians we need to defeat and humiliate them!

 

[Seanpcola]

Bundy owes them nothing, I would not pay them squat, just government over reach!

Stupid on the Reid threat, better to just do it and not threaten, but either way we don't need to kill the politicians we need to defeat and humiliate them!

I agree Frank. Jail time and public humiliation is a better deterent.

 

[Fletch]

This guy is a tremendous jerk with a self-inflated sense of entitlement. He owns the 160 acres that was originally homesteaded and the family purchased in 1948. That is the property he owns and pays taxes on and no one is trying to deny him rights to it. I bet he doesn't want to the pay the taxes on the 150,000 acres he is trying to lay claim to does he? What utter nonsense that he has rights to it because he is improving it. He is exploiting it for personal profit at the expense of us the taxpayers. He has lost every court battle representing himself with that sovereign citizen nonsense.

As far as the militia nuts who think they were rallying to some righteous cause I have one word: COWARDS! These gutless bastards placed their women and children on the front line when marching on the corralled cattle. All this talk of bravery and dying for the cause yet they put them out there to take the first bullets. That's so low and cowardly I struggle to find the proper words to describe it. No better than the Taliban and other terrorist who use women and children as human shields.

By all accounts from both sides the standoff was intense and many felt even a car backfiring could have set off a huge firefight. And these crazy bastards placed their families in the middle of that kind of situation? Nothing Patriotic about that what so ever. I would go so far as to say it's child abuse. They have no right to put children who have no say so into a situation like that.

I'm glad the authorities backed down and prevented a terrible tragedy but this should in no way be taken as some sort of victory for a righteous cause imo. A bunch of misguided idiots put their children's lives at risk to protect a thieving rancher who won't pay his grazing fees like the rest have to. I would go so far as to say it's child abuse and they aren't fit to be parents.

 

[bohica793]

Ok, I'm going to throw out my 2 cents worth here:

Bundy is an idiot, but he has every right to voice his opinions just as we all do, regardless of who agrees or disagrees. In my mind the real issue here is not whether Bundy should be grazing the land or not. The issue is this: Were 200 armed agents including snipers really necessary for this action or are the various government agencies with their paramilitary departments now to the point where they can just wield their power unchecked and recklessly, expecting everyone to just submit because they show force? Are we to the point that only intimidation is required, not actual legal authority? Unfortunately, the IRS has had this power for years in that they may seize your assets and force you to prove you do not actually owe them. In my mind, government overreach is the real issue here, not whether Bundy is a sovereign, blithering, racist neanderthal.

Discuss....

 

[FrankT]

I am glad we have Patriots who will stand up with Bundy, this has nothing to do w the land but a corrupt and over reaching government...some day you have to stand for something or be sheep led to the slaughter.

 

[Fletch]

I agree with there being vast abuses of government overreach but we can't go making every nutcase who is opposing the government in some way a hero. Some like Bundy are clearly in the wrong. I too am uncomfortable with the militarization of the police and federal agencies, but in this case hell yes they need 200 armed agents and it still wasn't enough to enforce the law. They were outgunned 5 to 1 by a bunch of gutless bastards using women and children as human shields.

That's a far cry from a late-night no knock raid on someone accused of a low level drug offense by a paramilitary swat team. Bundy had basically formed a 1000 man army so absolutely yes the armed agents were needed. This Patriot propaganda is reaching dangerous levels when we start viewing these officers in whole as the enemy. I'm sure there are rogue ones but most are veterans, mothers, and fathers who are doing a job to put food on the table just like the rest of us.

They are not some evil pawns of an international conspiracy to put us all in Chinese concentration camps. Do some of you hear how batshit crazy that sounds? Yet we have people honestly and sincerely advocating it on this site. Those federal agents were the heroes in this case by showing restraint and protecting the misguided mob from it's self. It's like they are intentionally trying to recreate another Waco type situation to justify their ever increasing rhetoric. That is very troubling to me especially when they are dragging their children into the middle of it.

 

[bohica793]

I agree with there being vast abuses of government overreach but we can't go making every nutcase who is opposing the government in some way a hero. Some like Bundy are clearly in the wrong. I too am uncomfortable with the militarization of the police and federal agencies, but in this case hell yes they need 200 armed agents and it still wasn't enough to enforce the law. They were outgunned 5 to 1 by a bunch of gutless bastards using women and children as human shields.

I believe the 200 agents were in place long before the gutless bastards. Just saying....

 

[joe]

I am sure 99% of the so called " Patriots" are good, perfectly stable, productive members of society.

In my ignorance on these groups what always pops in my head when I hear "Patriots" are extremists militia types like Timothy McVeigh. I fear that some of these groups are looking for a reason to start a fight with the government & use any chance they can to start something. I think one should be very carful what groups you choose to associate yourself with.

If you look at some of the motives McVeigh had for the Oklahoma bombing they sound similar to some of these groups.

"The chief conspirators, Timothy McVeigh and Terry Nichols, met in 1988 at Fort Benning during basic training for the U.S. Army.[17] Michael Fortier, McVeigh's accomplice, was his Army roommate.[18] The three shared interests in survivalism.[19][20] They expressed anger at the federal government's handling of the 1992 Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI) standoff with Randy Weaver at Ruby Ridge as well as the Waco siege—a 1993 51-day standoff between the FBI and Branch Davidian members which began with a botched ATF attempt to execute a search warrant leading to a fire fight (it is unknown whether ATF agents or Branch Davidians fired the first shot) and ended with the burning and shooting deaths of David Koresh and 75 others.[21] In March 1993, McVeigh visited the Waco site during the standoff, and then again after its conclusion.[22] McVeigh later decided to bomb a federal building as a response to the raids.[12][23][24][25]"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oklahoma_City_bombing


More detailed information on him.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timothy_McVeigh

"McVeigh hoped to inspire a revolt against what he considered to be a tyrannical federal government."


"McVeigh dissociated himself from his boyhood friend, Steve Hodge, by sending a 23-page farewell letter to him. He proclaimed his devotion to the United States Declaration of Independence, explaining in detail what each sentence meant to him. McVeigh declared that:

Those who betray or subvert the Constitution are guilty of sedition and/or treason, are domestic enemies and should and will be punished accordingly.

It also stands to reason that anyone who sympathizes with the enemy or gives aid or comfort to said enemy is likewise guilty. I have sworn to uphold and defend the Constitution against all enemies, foreign and domestic and I will. And I will because not only did I swear to, but I believe in what it stands for in every bit of my heart, soul and being. I know in my heart that I am right in my struggle, Steve. I have come to peace with myself, my God and my cause. Blood will flow in the streets, Steve. Good vs. Evil. Free Men vs. Socialist Wannabe Slaves. Pray it is not your blood, my friend."

 

[Fletch]

I agree Joe some of the language is eerily similar. They talk of being a peaceful protest but are armed to the teeth. That doesn't portray the image of non-violent civil disobedience.

In the same sentence they speak of peaceful protest and dying for the cause. The propaganda and rhetoric has sunken in so deep that many believe in their heart of hearts the country is now a tyrannical police state.


That's just not reality and they need to go to a real country with oppressive and tyrannical rule to see the difference. Fox News and the blowhard Hanity have been quick to play this up and lost a great deal of credibility in my view. Nuts like Alex Jones have been ginning stuff like this up and making millions promoting the paranoia but I figured Fox News would show at least a little restraint and journalistic integrity.

If these guys don't have the ability to distinguish between reality and fantasy then they are indeed potential threats to the public. They are already stopping citizens at armed militia checkpoints out there and demanding proof of residency to pass.

It's borderline anarchy and the Feds have shown great restraint. It's ironic that a group who doesn't recognize the power of the government and protest in their view an oppressive and armed federal agency is demanding government issued id's at armed check points. They are impeding the travel of locals at gunpoint! What would any of us think if a bunch of gun toting yahoos had an id checkpoint on a public highway around here?

The citizens of the area want these nuts gone and have grown very uncomfortable with them. There are also reports of infighting between the various militia groups now as well. That's what you get with their philosophy. No real order and things can descend into an anarchistic chaos very quickly.

We are a nation of laws and these guys think they are above them touting their own interpretations of the constitution. Much like Biblical Fundamentalist they don't recognize or acknowledge any other view other than their strict interpretation. Combine that with guns, lack of critical thinking skills, and language about dying for the cause and it's easy to see the potential for an ugly and tragic situation of their own making.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

 

[Droshki]

IF there were 200 agents present, and I only have the crazy people's words for it right now, it is because the Bundys told the government that they were heavily armed and would go to any lengths necessary to stop federal law enforcement officers from removing their cattle from federal land. These law enforcement officers were operating within the law,executing a federal court order. In effect, they threatened to shoot innocent americans that were operating wholly 100% within US law. Therefore, the government's response was not unreasonable.

(Unless you are one of those people that are enjoying the protections afforded by the United States of America, but at the same time are saying that you don't recognize such a country as existing.)

I intended to find those quotes from the Bundy's for you all, but look what I found instead:



Cliven Bundy’s Militias Now Terrorizing Small Town With Armed Checkpoints (Images)

http://aattp.org/cliven-bundys-militias-now-terrorizing-small-town-with-armed-checkpoints-images/

I think its clear who the aggressors here are.

It would seem that the use of the word "terrorist" was the right one, and I expect the eventual criminal charges against these people will reflect that.

 

[Droshki]

Terrorist operations include:

1. Have set up checkpoints where residents are required to prove they live in the area before being allowed to pass;
2. Have established a persistent presence along federal highways and state and county roads; and
3. Have established an armed presence in or around community areas including local churches, school, and other community locations.



Is the above photo what you would characterize as a "Win for the American people"? Armed roadblocks? It looks more like Fallujah to me.




I will also reiterate that any one of these people that think they are not going to be charged with federal felonies afterwards is not dealing with a full deck. The government has shown great wisdom by not getting into a OK Corral shootout with them, but like I said, a photo like the above is all they need. Facial recognition software can crawl the drivers license and other databases until they match a name with this woman, and three months from now when she thinks its all over, it will only be just beginning for her. A SWAT team will enter her house at 3AM one night (or something similar) and her life as a free person will be over, most likely forever.

 

[donr101395]

Terrorist operations include:

1. Have set up checkpoints where residents are required to prove they live in the area before being allowed to pass;
2. Have established a persistent presence along federal highways and state and county roads; and
3. Have established an armed presence in or around community areas including local churches, school, and other community locations.

View attachment 18952

Yea,the chance of stopping for her to "check my papers" are less than zero.