7 Dec Start Date for rule

[M60Gunner]

It is not a law it is a change to definitions primarily to what in the business of and who is required to have a FFL it is proposed this is a reply from to the proposed rule
if it is adopted they should publish that it has been adopted but they are the government they can do anything they want

NSSF Submits Comment on Biden's New 'Engaged in the Business' Rule

Lawrence G. Keane, NSSF’s Senior Vice President and General Counsel, stated, “Respectfully, ATF lacks legal authority to do so.”

www.gunsamerica.com

Again, publishing in the fed reg is the first step. After the comment period if it becomes part of USC and usually by extension CFR, it is law. The proposed change states if any sale is made with intent to profit, you are engaged in the bidness…

 

[Snake-Eyes]

…. The proposed change states if any sale is made with intent to profit, you are engaged in the bidness…

Not exactly.

If you are selling from or buying for a “personal collection”, then you are NOT considered “engaged in the business of”.

Federal Register :: Request Access

Excerpt from the rule linked above:

“Specifically, this rule proposes to define “personal collection,” “personal collection of firearms,” and “personal firearms collection” as “personal firearms that a person accumulates for study, comparison, exhibition, or for a hobby ( e.g.,noncommercial, recreational activities for personal enjoyment such as hunting, or skeet, target, or competition shooting).”“


Basically, the stuff you buy should be considered “personal firearms”. The stuff you sell is from your collection of “personal firearms”. Any profit made is immaterial because the sale/purchase is for your noncommercial hobby and personal enjoyment.

Another excerpt:

”Also expressly excluded from the definition of “personal collection” is “any firearm purchased for resale or made with the predominant intent to earn a profit” because of their inherently commercial nature.”

So, don’t buy a firearm as an “investment” and post about it as such. Yeah, infringement on Free Speech, etc etc, but until this BS is revoked, no need to overstep and make a prosecution easy.
They are all for your noncommercial hobby and personal enjoyment. Right?


TL;DR

You are purchasing/selling something for/from your personal firearms collection for your noncommercial hobby and personal enjoyment. None of the sales or purchases are motivated by profit. The purchase/sale is just part of the hobby to enhance your collection. Therefore, you are Not engaged in the business and don’t require an FFL.

 

[IronBeard]

Noted in the draft:

A sale or purchase is defined as exchanging a firearm for anything of value. Anything, including services. You give me a gun for cutting your grass and painting your house, you sold me a firearm. Once we have precedent, the defintion of sale will be liberally applied, and we can explore a whole new universe of "sales" taxes. Yay.

Missing from the definition of personal collection; personal protection and self defense. I'm sure the atf will say that's implied, but the judge who tries you will note it's not written, and so the atf will rush to your defense. Here we are again, in print/law saying that the Second Amendment only applies to hunting and target shooting. Looking forward to the government definitions of hunting and target shooting. Should be on par with "fair and accountable" elections.

 

[M60Gunner]

The key to me is “intent” to profit. Doesn’t matter what the particulars of the sale are or were. See what you’re saying Snake as 18 USC 902 wasn’t changed, rather the definition of “engaged in the business” was. Still too grey for me be comfortable. I feel so sorry for those just starting in the hobby.

 

[stage20]

The key to me is “intent” to profit. Doesn’t matter what the particulars of the sale are or were. See what you’re saying Snake as 18 USC 902 wasn’t changed, rather the definition of “engaged in the business” was. Still too grey for me be comfortable. I feel so sorry for those just starting in the hobby.

Those starting in the hobby are ignorant to most of the laws.

 

[kendive]

Those starting in the hobby are ignorant to most of the laws.

Laws we don't need no stinking laws. LOL Who cares anyway. I'm not going to try to decipher there secret squirrel sh#$$#@

I will stick with the airguns less bs. I don't even shoot my powder burners much anymore and not looking for any news ones.

 

[stage20]

Laws we don't need no stinking laws. LOL Who cares anyway. I'm not going to try to decipher there secret squirrel sh#$$#@

I will stick with the airguns less bs. I don't even shoot my powder burners much anymore and not looking for any news ones.

I'm setup to take donations.

 

[kendive]

 

[IronBeard]

The key to me is “intent” to profit. Doesn’t matter what the particulars of the sale are or were. See what you’re saying Snake as 18 USC 902 wasn’t changed, rather the definition of “engaged in the business” was. Still too grey for me be comfortable. I feel so sorry for those just starting in the hobby.

Yep, it's all about intent. That is the new nuclear option. If you talk about it, read about it, think about it, or even look in that direction, you have intent...

 

[M60Gunner]

Laws we don't need no stinking laws. LOL Who cares anyway. I'm not going to try to decipher there secret squirrel sh#$$#@

I will stick with the airguns less bs. I don't even shoot my powder burners much anymore and not looking for any news ones.

Yeah they’re mostly out of my price range

 

[M60Gunner]

I'm setup to take donations.

Thinking you could shift to accessories