OK so I will leave out the names of all business and parties involved and just tell you the interesting story going on the with the interpretation of the 3 day law we all love to hate.

I have simplified it somewhat to avoid confusion as I have not yet had a whisky and I am easily confused when sober.

I bought 3 guns. One I bought local at what I will call business 2, the other two I had bought on line and had sent to a local FFL we will Call Business 1.

I went to business 1 to collect my guns I purchased almost 2 weeks ago and they arrived there over 4 days ago. I was told I can not pick them up because the waiting period starts the day after I fill out the back ground check. I thought that's odd. Business two told me that is not the case. It starts the day of purchase regardless of where that purchase took place.

I went to Business 2 to collect an earlier purchase and explained what business one told me. They said business 1 is wrong, the 3 day waiting period starts at the moment the gun is purchased. So the view is this, I buy a gun online, 10 days later it arrives at the business, I fill out the background check and can walk out that day with the gun.

Business 2 says, whoa there partner that's not how it works. When the gun is sent to us, it is legally then owned by us. You there for are buying the gun from us at that point. The three day starts at the time you submit the background check.

I did pull up the law and from what I see despite the logic of business 2 sounding more reasonable to me, the law reads exactly the way business 1 explained it.

"There shall be a mandatory 3-day waiting period, which shall be 3 days, excluding weekends and legal holidays, between the purchase and the delivery at retail of any handgun. “Purchase” means the transfer of money or other valuable consideration to the retailer."

So the question I guess is who is exactly the retailer? The FFL doing the transfer or the business I actually gave the money too for the weapon.

I am not an FFL dealer so I am making an assumption on this next part, feel free to correct me. The gun is sent from the online store to a local FFL to ensure papers are done and the law is followed. But does not in fact register the gun as theirs like a car dealership does when they trade cars with each other. There for the gun is not the property of business 2 and technically only the transfer agent, not the seller as explained earlier by business 2, making business 1, once again correct.

I sent the link of the law to business 2 who said to ensure everyone is protected (I fully support this) they will call the ATF Monday and ask them to clarify this.

I am very interested on everyone's thoughts on the matter

Seems straight forward, the law says 3 days from the purchase to delivery so business 2 is right. You didn't purchase the gun from business 1 so they shouldn't hold it any longer. The law is so someone doesn't get mad and then immediately go buy a gun and shoot someone. The time it takes to ship the gun or you go pick it up should suffice for the waiting time.

Thinking the clock should start your 72 hour waiting period after the 4473 was called in and you pass the back ground check from the FDLE, unless you have ccw, if you pass the back ground check and have ccw you leave with the weapons :usa: :rockon:

Am sure we'll get it figured out for you after a while, interesting :tape2:

bobinbusan said:

Thinking the clock should start your 72 hour waiting period after the 4473 was called in and you pass the back ground check from the FDLE, unless you have ccw, if you pass the back ground check and have ccw you leave with the weapons :usa: :rockon:

Am sure we'll get it figured out for you after a while, interesting :tape2:

Click to expand...

I thought the same as you though I agree with Viking1204's interpretation as the law says nothing about the 4473. Not one word.

shadeogray said:

they will call the ATF Monday and ask them to clarify this.

I am very interested on everyone's thoughts on the matter

Click to expand...

ATF? This is a FL statute.

Thinking without a 4473 called in, there isn't a weapon purchase in the FDLE system, me just thinking again? :usa::moony:
JohnAL will get us squared away on this matter eace: :usa:

Hey now, this is Obama land, no thinking allowed!

JohnAL said:

ATF? This is a FL statute.

Click to expand...

Yep, thought it odd too, but legal stuff is not my thing, now if you need help fixing something or help drinking something, I am your guy. If you want a good word with the almighty I am not your guy, I pray for an intruder every night, nada. I think he hates me...

The gray area with on line transfers is going to be the date in which the receiving FFL logs the gun into their books. In effect the receiving FFL is transferring the gun to you just as if they were selling the gun to you. They can not sell/transfer a firearm to you if they do not have possession of that firearm. Therefore the 3 BUSINESS DAY waiting period (it's NOT 72 hours) can't start before the receiving FFL has possession of the firearm.

It's all a bunch of bull shit that shouldn't exist in the first place and I would error on the side of not going to jail, FFL revoked, legal costs, etc... because of some A-hole judges interpretation of a law.

Maybe up in New York are Chicago in his law class they wrote up the first question over tea with Al Sharpton eace: :usa: :rockon:

shadeogray said:

Hey now, this is Obama land, no thinking allowed!

Click to expand...

I'll refrain from giving my opinion on the FL Statute interpretation because it is vague.

I will promise you that at least half of gun store employees in this country don't have a clue what they are talking about.

bobinbusan said:

Thinking without a 4473 called in, there isn't a weapon purchase in the FDLE system, me just thinking again? :usa::moony:
JohnAL will get us squared away on this matter eace: :usa:

Click to expand...

AS the FL law reads as soon as money changes hands the 3 business day waiting period starts but when you are dealing with part time employees, college students, new hires, etc... etc... it is far easier (legally speaking) for all parties involved to simply require all employees to start the waiting period when the back ground check is called in. It keeps everyone legal, eliminates mistakes, etc...

I suspect big bulls is correct. If I was a FFL I would err on 3 days from the call in.

Ok here is what Business 2 just sent me. So we talked to atf. You are not actually purchasing the gun until you check 11a on your 4473. Be cause you are actually buying from the place you had it transferred because it goes into our books. It would probably be easier to explain it over the phone then text so fill free to call if you need too.

JohnAL said:

I'll refrain from giving my opinion on the FL Statute interpretation because it is vague.

I will promise you that at least half of gun store employees in this country don't have a clue what they are talking about.

Click to expand...

This!

Besides some real dipshits behind the counter, I can't place all the blame on the shops/employees. You're dealing with State and Federal laws that are often written in a manner that can be interpreted several ways. Other times, practices that are common/accepted tend to be word of mouth and are in compliance with the intent but not the letter of the law. Updates or changes to the laws don't always get passed down.

It's fuckin' stupid. As a FFL, I need to make sure my ass is covered which usually means erring on the side that makes the customer wait longer. As the customer, the best thing you can do is know how your FFL operates... and have a CCW so this doesn't matter.

When/if you get into NFA stuff, you'll find that it's a similar situation there. Sometimes you can get 2 different answers from the same person. Depending on when and how you ask the question.

EDIT:

The below is paraphrased from the hard copy of the Firearms purchase program Dealers manual 2004. It's what was provided to me when I got my license. If someone knows of a newer edition, please let me know. My comments are in the ( )

3 day wait starts at "purchase". (ambiguous at best. Would suggest you go to your FFL early and sign the 4473 to get the wait started, and pay them)

"Because the waiting period is independent of the record check requirement, the call may be made at the beginning of the three-day waiting period, during the period or after the three day waiting period is completed." That's a quote. (per the handbook, when the call is made has no bearing on the wait. It's been suggested by some that you do the check as late as possible to ensure the information is accurate prior to the transfer)

time between signatures is used to determine time line for information provided to FDLE for background checks and at the time of transfer. (worded funny but it would seem the first signature date would be the determining factor on when the wait starts. The 4473 should be the easiest thing to produce and check.)

THIS ----> As a FFL,I need to make sure my ass is covered .........". When I had my FFL some years ago,I had an operation like Nate. My area was super rural and I did not do the buisness that Nate does. However,I made sure that I protected myself. IMO .... I did not have near the customers that Nate does that holds a Fla CWP. I would ALWAYS make sure that the waiting period thing was clear to them,before any paperwork had started to be filled out or any money had changed hands.

I would check over the transfer process very carefully also. If any of this wait time/paperwork stuff is in error it is the FFL that gets his ass in a wringer. IMO .... not speaking for Nate,if a prosprctive customer does not understand all this,PLUS the fact that he just might have to wait a couple of EXTRA days,he probably needs to take his buisness somewhere else.

This above post is not directed to any one buyer OR FFL/seller. --- SAWMAN

One more reason I love Sweet Home Alabama!

Once you pay any amount of money, this includes a deposit or layaway down payment, it shows intent to purchase. Therefore the 3 day wait starts at that point. How do I know you might ask? I have worked the gun counter for both Academy Sports and Gander Mountain.

rustytempest said:

Once you pay any amount of money, this includes a deposit or layaway down payment, it shows intent to purchase. Therefore the 3 day wait starts at that point. How do I know you might ask? I have worked the gun counter for both Academy Sports and Gander Mountain.

Click to expand...

That doesn't cover the OP's situation. He paid well more than 3 days prior to pickup. I don't buy Guns at either of those shops but I'd bet a transfer fee that without a ccw your not going to be able to walk out of either store with your gun the first time you walk in.

As an FFL are they going to keep copies of the customers original receipt to prove the wait period? Again, I'd bet a transfer fee, the wait is going to be determined by the dates on the 4473.

The 4473 has absolutely nothing to do with the 3 day wait. And to answer your question, yes we look at the dates on the receipt that is ALWAYS included in the transfer paperwork. A customer can purchase a gun online from Gander Mountain or anywhere else, and as long as it has been 3 business days (not including weekends or holidays) and they pass the background check they will in fact leave with the firearm, wether they have ever visited the store or not. The 4473 is for establishing if a potential customer can legally purchase a firearm. It has nothing to do with a 3 day wait, but background check has to be completed before the gun leaves the store.