Carl said:

what's his forum handle?

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FNHman said:

They have brought on their own trouble from their own actions. Nothing you stated justifies over reacting. You can't keep pissing on people's liberty and expect respect. Everybody knows of at least one person who has been framed, beat, mistreated by law enforcement. My personal dealings put in about a 35% of them have been professional and the rest can go F themselves.

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Carl said:

What does the common man do about it besides be outraged and demoralized? blm/antifa burned cities day after day, most arrested were released next day. YES THEY WERE... BAD POLITICS AND POLICIES Police were televised kneeling in the streets to blm in the same news clips with blm burning and beating people. YES SOME DID... BAD POLITICS AND LEADERSHIP ON BEHALF OF LE. Then we saw thousands of "thin blue line" supporter types have their lives turned upside down for the supposed 1/6 insurrection. DUMB ASS FOLKS FOLLOWED THE CARROT AND TOOK THE BAIT. Those were the common men who would at least speak up. Who supports them? Not the police that arrested them, those guys were just doing their job. Right? AGAIN POOR LEADERSHIP, LE IS INFILTRATED JUST LIKE THE GOVT. They are always just doing their jobs.. MAYBE YOU HAVE NOT NOTICED BUT MANY LE LEADERS HAVE PLACED POLITICIANS ON NOTIVE. Police intentionally corralled the white nationalist groups head on into the raving antifa mobs to be assaulted in Charlottesville but who arrested them for simply carrying a torch at night? NOT FAMILIAR I'LL TAKE YOUR WORD, NOT GOOD I AGREE Its never ending.

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Bowhntr6pt said:

There was a time I'd 100% disagree but now days the quality of officer is in fact on the downslide. We recently fired two, one was on my shift.

It's the other way around...THE CITIZENS HAVE BROUGHT THIS UPON THEMSELVES. Why? Glad you asked.

Over the past ten plus years we've seen LE attacked nationwide, in mass, in organized fashion, led by powerful community leaders and politicians. BLM and other organizations calling for defunding the police, affirmative action hiring practices, reduced/elimination of bail, reduced sentences, liberal insane discretionary prosecution policies, witch-hunt style attacks and prosecutions of officers who did in fact use justifiable force, Clinton proclaiming LE is a "systematically racist institution", yada, yada, yada.

All this time... where in the F was the common man offering push back? Where were the level-headed politicians putting a stop to restrictive/bad policies? Where were the appreciative community leaders supporting their local LE? Crickets for the most part where it mattered most.

The result for those of us in LE ... eroding attitudes as the system just keeps releasing criminals, fear of improper prosecution because visuals (The Wendy's incident in Atlanta, Michael Brown incident, George Floyd incident), lack of confidence in the rest of the CJ system, dwindling numbers due to good people leaving (opens the door for substandard people), lower and lower hiring standards (behaviors that were once disqualifying are now allowed), tolerance for substandard performance in order to keep employees (allowing retraining vs. termination, allowing resignations that carry no consequences vs. IA and termination resulting in bad cops just going to another agency), just an overall downhill slide in quality people, leadership, mentoring, and quality of service to the public.

Make no mistake about what I'm saying... there are LEO's out there who give ample reason for people to dislike and not trust the police. With social media and body cams almost all the bad stuff is captured and shared almost immediately.

I think if our society didn't have such a thirst for drama of the bad kind, one could counter 10:1 great body cam/cell cam footage of cops doing outstanding things... but that's not as attractive and doesn't captivate society's attention as much as a bad cop violating someone's rights.

I guess the point of my post is:

1. You're partially right... but I don't think 65% of cops are bad.
2. The LE community as a whole, as well as society, have equally contributed to the current state of affairs.
3. Bad publicity sells 10X more than a good; there will ALWAYS be cops who perform poorly so it skewers perception.
4. Society as a whole hasn't stood up for the good cops out there as much as the other side has to destroy LE .

OK... I've spoke my mind...

ETA- Just an example to consider... thousands of dangerous mentally ill people are successfully taken into custody for medical/mental treatment every day in the US, at great risk to officers who assume said risk and manage it well, where are those stories?

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Bowhntr6pt said:

I guess the point of my post is:

1. You're partially right... but I don't think 65% of cops are bad.
2. The LE community as a whole, as well as society, have equally contributed to the current state of affairs.
3. Bad publicity sells 10X more than a good; there will ALWAYS be cops who perform poorly so it skewers perception.
4. Society as a whole hasn't stood up for the good cops out there as much as the other side has to destroy LE .

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lil'skeet said:

I was hoping FLORIDA was following a different path as far as BLM and law enforcement. I have close friends that are sheriffs and they are the good guys. They are leaving the sheriff's department because of politics, new leadership, and many of the other things you have stated. I am convinced it is by design to degrade America. It's working well.
It is very sad, but the quality of everything is sh!t anymore. Just like most of the things people buy now, it's disposabl

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IronBeard said:

I read and appreciate your post, but condensed here for brevity.

1. Nor do I.
2. Ab-so-lutely. This could be a thread of its own.
3. Yes it does. People want dirt and drama.
4. Here is the view through my aperture. Law Enforcement is Government Enforcement. Policing, IAW the sworn Constitutional Oath died decades back. You can mark the time of death by when "protect and serve" was removed from patrol vehicles, IMO. Constitutional policing would have a sworn officer carry out duties IAW the Constitution while acting against the unconstitutional. Maybe it's happening, not seeing it where I have to live/operate. Perception.

Current situation: The private citizen is so law/litigation bound (oppressed? threatened?), they don't dare act. They just call 911 and let you guys deal with it. Through decades of legislation, encouraged and enabled by the LE industry, we are now at a point where only LE can arm themselves and act with the confidence qualified immunity provides. As examples, I present the NFA and every infringement that followed, for "safety." The average citizen has no such immunity/protections. It is all on their dime/time.

To end
1. I don't think 65% of society is bad. I do believe about 65% of society is apathetic/lazy/frightened/oppressed, and maybe doesn't GAS about those they perceive might have brought about/force/enforced their perceived circumstances?.
2. See above.
3. What we who would help you need to see is the bad weeded out, maybe banned from LE. Pete Rosed? Not moved to another department, a media blackout for "force protection," and to be constantly fed some can't talk about the ongoing investigation BS. Yes I do understand there are sometimes ongoing investigations, not 100% of the time...
4. I do believe there is more than one person on this forum that would side/stand with Constitutional Policing. I'm failing to communicate the difference I perceive between LE and Constitutional Policing IOT keep this post short(er). I think there could be alliance/cooperation, but we "average" citizens need some hard and fast protections before most will step in and risk freedom, limb, or life on LE's behalf.

Willing to discuss, maybe start another thread? You seem to know your business. Let's figure it out 'cause change doesn't happen for no reason and is never easy.

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Bowhntr6pt said:

All great points... thanks.

Not only are citizens hesitant to act, and rightfully so, we are seeing new cops doing the same. I have to approve all of my shift's Use of Force Reports... ANY TIME one of our people do ANY THING other than place cuffs on a WILLING person, we have to do a complete use of force investigation and document that on a completely different form/system. So if we physically force your arms behind your back, no matter how great or less of a degree... report time.

As a result, some cops hesitate as they don't want to "create extra work" I've discussed this with other cops in other places and they have the same issue... that's not safe for any one. When it's time to act, you need to act extra paper work be damned.

My agency is a great place to work, our leadership still holds old school values where we treat people the way they allow us to. Our Administration has also come to the conclusion that bad actors must be weeded out as if we don't police ourselves, there are other institutions that will step in and do so... we have seen this in the past.

As far as Constitutional Policing vs. contemporary LE, again, society as a whole is responsible for the shift in roles and responsibilities spanning back some fifty years. A lack of other non-LE service institutions has resulted in LE being the default for just about every problem a person encounters, examples include:

Spending hours and hours looking for lost dementia patients (nest to suicides and OD cases, this consumes a lot of time)

Spending hours and hours at a residence waiting on the funeral home after a natural or non-suspicious death

Wasting time responding to people on I-75 who were so stupid they ran out of gas

Wasting hours responding to parents complaining that they can't control their 10 y/o

Wasting hours on barking dog calls and other animal/wildlife related calls where there is no real danger or problem

Wasting hours responding to calls because someone simply drove through a neighborhood the person didn't know

Hours and hours wasted responding to civil disputes LE can't do anything about, such as child custody disagreements

Wasting time on landlord/tenant disputes LE can't do any thing about

Responding to drug overdose and suicide threats (this consumes at least 30% or more of a normal day at work)

Wasting time and resources providing escorts so people can retrieve property w/o conflict (post divorce or break up)

Responding to people locked out of their car or house

Responding for welfare checks because the neighbor thinks a newspaper in the driveway means you're dead

One estranged parent wanting welfare checks on their kids as a way to harass/inconvenience the other half

An insane amount hours wasted on DCF calls that are bogus yet the state won't prosecute for false reporting

I could go on and on, but I think readers get the point. With all the "white noise" LEO's have to perform and deal with, there is little time for proactive quality police patrol activities that actually help prevent your house or car from being burglarized.

I blame LE leaders of years past for allowing this encroachment of non-LE related services into the career field. PUBLIC SERVANT now days means call the cops for any problem you might have... including getting the lid off a stuck jar...lol.

Sorry for the long rant... but gone forever are the days of cops doing just cop stuff.

ETA- I know this sounds like be just bitching... I guess I am. I'm worn down, I'm tired, I want out. I can't wait to retire, but until I do, I will continue to provide the best leadership I can to the new kids in hopes they will do the right thing(s).

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