I watched something similar. The Operator made reference to "The rule of 3", he went on to say most defensive shootings contain 3 shots fired within a 3 foot radius and occur within 3 seconds of the encounter.
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I think 6 rounds is enough for SD
- Thread starter Rebel_Rider1969
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I watched something similar. The Operator made reference to "The rule of 3", he went on to say most defensive shootings contain 3 shots fired within a 3 foot radius and occur within 3 seconds of the encounter.
BluesBrother
Master
Times are a changin'. Gone are the days where 5-6 will get you through. IMO. Cool heads don't always prevail. Sometimes panic shooting is what's left. Hope is not a strategy.
ABlaster
Marksman
Did he have to fight off a mob with a firearm? I’ve been around a few big mobs when bullets starred flying and universally the mob suddenly realized they had pressing business elsewhere.
Of course there will be a distinction between an angry mob that gets a case of the bloodlust (usually undisciplined and easily scared off) and a disciplined group with a plan and an objective. You square off against the second group by yourself and any ammo you have should be used to break contact!
ABlaster
Marksman
I learned it as the rule of 3 to 5, covering shots, distance, and time.
My actual experience responding to and being at such events is showing me that rule may not be the case any longer.
Bowhntr6pt
Master
There's a saying... better to have it and not need it, than need it and not have it.
Smaller semi-auto pistols with less capacity are more prone to malfunctions... don't bother trying to argue the point with me because not only have I witnessed this countless times during our annual HR218 qualifications where we qualify 600+ retired officers, I also have two cop friends who are into the tactical lifestyle barely survive an armed robbery attempt where BOTH had malfunctions with sub-compact pistols AT THE SAME TIME.
Fortunately their adversary had no tactical training and skills and failed to capitalize on their misfortune. I believe I posted an in-depth AAR on here after that incident and I share it with every class I give concerning ready action drills.
ANY GUN IS BETTER THAN NO GUN... but if I'm carrying in preparation/anticipation to fight, then I want a tool I can fight with, and a sub-compact limited capacity pistol ain't it. I somewhat anticipate problems when I go out into the public because my job has me tainted... I see trouble CONSTANTLY to one degree or another.
My threshold for CC carry is a G19 with one reload.
Smaller semi-auto pistols with less capacity are more prone to malfunctions... don't bother trying to argue the point with me because not only have I witnessed this countless times during our annual HR218 qualifications where we qualify 600+ retired officers, I also have two cop friends who are into the tactical lifestyle barely survive an armed robbery attempt where BOTH had malfunctions with sub-compact pistols AT THE SAME TIME.
Fortunately their adversary had no tactical training and skills and failed to capitalize on their misfortune. I believe I posted an in-depth AAR on here after that incident and I share it with every class I give concerning ready action drills.
ANY GUN IS BETTER THAN NO GUN... but if I'm carrying in preparation/anticipation to fight, then I want a tool I can fight with, and a sub-compact limited capacity pistol ain't it. I somewhat anticipate problems when I go out into the public because my job has me tainted... I see trouble CONSTANTLY to one degree or another.
My threshold for CC carry is a G19 with one reload.
I’m pretty excited about my new Ruger LCP max with a 12 round factory extended magazine. 13 rounds of 99grain Federal LE .380 HPs and another mag in my pocket. All fits easily in my front pocket. I haven’t strapped a holster on the belt since I cleared it for service! 
Sure, I won’t be taking any 30 yards shots with it, but I’m pretty comfortable at 10 yards.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Sure, I won’t be taking any 30 yards shots with it, but I’m pretty comfortable at 10 yards.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
sloporsche
Marksman
Years back a NJ state trooper ran out of ammo against A davis and was killed ,they then went with high capacity magazine automatics iirc .
ABlaster
Marksman
BH6, was that the Jet Ski purchase scam? If so, I remember reading about that on a bulletin all the way up here.
The discussion about what is appropriate to carry and when is one of those "9mm vs .45" conversations that despite it being dragged out all the time in gun circles I actually enjoy participating in. That's also why I'm glad I joined this forum, because my old one splintered and became a gun craigslist with no discussion. I really think that even when we disagree, it keeps the brain juices flowing and makes us evaluate and re-evaluate our positions.
FWIW, what I carry generally depends on when and where I'm going and whether or not my family is with me, but centers around a Glock 43x, a Glock 17 5th gen with a dot, or a 2.75" .44 Mag. Generally I carry one reload no matter the platform.
The discussion about what is appropriate to carry and when is one of those "9mm vs .45" conversations that despite it being dragged out all the time in gun circles I actually enjoy participating in. That's also why I'm glad I joined this forum, because my old one splintered and became a gun craigslist with no discussion. I really think that even when we disagree, it keeps the brain juices flowing and makes us evaluate and re-evaluate our positions.
FWIW, what I carry generally depends on when and where I'm going and whether or not my family is with me, but centers around a Glock 43x, a Glock 17 5th gen with a dot, or a 2.75" .44 Mag. Generally I carry one reload no matter the platform.
ABlaster
Marksman
I found the article I think you're talking about. Good read, although bad ending. I suppose I should have been clearer, because I was talking about a regular joe going about their business day-to-day, not a soldier or LEO whose job it is to find and move towards dangerous people doing dangerous things in dangerous places. Yeah, if you're looking for trouble you need a different loadout than you would normally.
sloporsche
Marksman
I try [when the pubic range manager aint looking] quick draw ,2 shot center mass then re-access all at 10 feet using a 2.5 snubski .
sloporsche
Marksman
the savage i think is still living/hiding/protected in cuba to this dayI found the article I think you're talking about. Good read, although bad ending. I suppose I should have been clearer, because I was talking about a regular joe going about their business day-to-day, not a soldier or LEO whose job it is to find and move towards dangerous people doing dangerous things in dangerous places. Yeah, if you're looking for trouble you need a different loadout than you would normally.
ABlaster
Marksman
In reading the entire article about Lamonaco, I found this in it.
"The truth is that there’s insufficient evidence that ammunition capacity was a factor in Trooper Lamonaco’s death. It’s true that Trooper Lamonaco fired all his rounds without stopping his attacker, but it’s not clear whether additional rounds in the gun would have saved him."
There's also the elephant in the room which ties into Howe's statement about marksmanship. While I do think it's a bit disingenuous for a Delta operator, who has unlimited ammunition and all the time they need to become some of the best shooters in the world, to criticize "the rest of us" who are on time and financial budgets to train with, it does bear looking at that the Trooper made the classic error of beginning to fire as soon as the gun clears the holster (which I have seen in happen up close and in real life) so he may have been out by the time the weapon was in his line of sight and ready to do real work.
"The truth is that there’s insufficient evidence that ammunition capacity was a factor in Trooper Lamonaco’s death. It’s true that Trooper Lamonaco fired all his rounds without stopping his attacker, but it’s not clear whether additional rounds in the gun would have saved him."
There's also the elephant in the room which ties into Howe's statement about marksmanship. While I do think it's a bit disingenuous for a Delta operator, who has unlimited ammunition and all the time they need to become some of the best shooters in the world, to criticize "the rest of us" who are on time and financial budgets to train with, it does bear looking at that the Trooper made the classic error of beginning to fire as soon as the gun clears the holster (which I have seen in happen up close and in real life) so he may have been out by the time the weapon was in his line of sight and ready to do real work.
sloporsche
Marksman
It reads as he was not a very good shot and blew through his ammo until he was out and it cost him his life .
AB and BH6 speak from real world experience . A man would be prudent to listen to their advice. Though I’m no expert I know enough to know that a gun fight never goes like a person thinks it will.
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Rebel_Rider1969
Well Known Nuisance
Thats a different situation. I have my yard dagger for around the property. house, yard. 17 shot 9mm w optic. Chest rig. Yes I'm a nut.
I was talking about out on the town, shopping, dining etc.
The smartest thing you can do is avoid or remove yourself from issues. Valentine's day took my wife out. 2 people in cars in the parking lot started yelling after one "stole" a parking spot. My bride wanted to stand there and watch, nope just about had to kick her in the rear to get her moving away towards the building. I chastised her for gawking. Got the stink eye too. But she realized what could have happened. Get away asap from idiots. Pay attention, then you won't need any rounds and get to go home, not the morgue or jail. Ymmv
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BluesBrother
Master
Mass shooters have demonstrated they don't want you to have a choice to run from harm. They want the body count high. It doesn't matter where you are. If someone is shooting at you. . . . .arm yourself or perish. Even if you are backing up arm yourself if you can. IMO
ABlaster
Marksman
It sounded to me like the bad guy opened up and they were shooting at each other at the same time. The bad guy got rounds on target and he did not, probably about the same time. Perhaps if he could have kept shooting it might have made a difference, but if he had scored a hit it definitely would have. Unless I read the article wrong, he still had possession of the other suspect's 9mm, which he probably could have transitioned to faster than reloading a revolver. I recognize I'm just being a hindsight expert here at this point, though.
Like forum discussions do, we have strayed a bit (which is one of the things I actually like about them). I think we can all agree that we should strive to be the best shooters we can. Shooting to save your life or another's is a "high stakes/low frequency" activity. We love to talk about it, discuss gear, carrying philosophies, and the all the stuff that goes with it, but looking at the "what gun stuff did you do today" thread, there's a lot more buying, selling, and accessorizing going on than trips to the range or 20 minute sessions of meaningful dry-fire. I say meaningful because most of what I have seen is not. I actually have written and taught a 30-60 minute dry-fire lesson plan that seems to open some eyes.
I think I'm going to re-watch the Howe videos. They were good stuff.
ABlaster
Marksman
I've had a version of that happen as well. Too much to detail here and it ended without any paperwork, but sometimes our spouses/girlfriends whatever need to be reminded that there's a time for discussion and a time to do what you're told by someone with experience in what pre-conflict behavior looks like.
5lima30ret
Master
I started out my Police career carrying 6 rounds of .357 and (2) speedloaders filled with .357 and a PR-24. As a rookie I worked a large HUD housing project that many of the residents didn't like the Po-Po 
. So yea, 6 rounds can do the job...until it can't!
. So yea, 6 rounds can do the job...until it can't!ABlaster
Marksman
I started with a Smith 5904. Back in my dad's day he carried a Smith 58 .41 Mag that he had factory nickel plated and fitted with rosewood grips, wide trigger, and wide hammer. Sometime in the 70's he was forced to give it up for a Smith model 13.
