HD Tactical

REM 870 A combat shotgun: great rep. Yes, but that's not the same one you buy!

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  • wildrider666

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    Mixing Apples and Apples; If its not Mil/LE 870 or been inspected and parts upgraded. You just own a good bird gun!


    REMINGTON ARMS COMPANY, LE DIVISION
    Important differences between Remington 870 Police and 870 Express shotguns

    The 870 Express has been an important part of Remington’s offering to the sporting market.
    It was designed to meet a price point in the commercial market while still providing classic 870 functionality.
    All of Remington’s 870’s have interchangeable parts, even if they have cosmetic differences.
    It is also important to note that many manufacturers use the 870 Express platform for their Police / Combat models.
    Without exception, every manufacturer who utilizes our 870 platform serves to upgrade their system to a more efficient, street worthy platform.
    While the 870 Express is still an 870, the best pump shotgun on the market, there are some very important cosmetic and functional differences between it and the 870 Police.
    To our customers in Law Enforcement, Military, Corrections, and Security, whose lives depend upon the unfailing performance of Remington shotguns, the Police modifications are of paramount importance. Synopses of the variances are provided below.

    • 870 Police shotguns go thru a special 23 station check list – ranging from visual inspection, functional testing, test firing, and final inspection.

    • All Police shotguns are assembled in a “special build area” at the plant in Ilion, NY. This section is secured and serves only to build LE and Military shotguns, with the same factory personnel working at that assignment each shift.

    • All parts that enter the “special build area” are visually inspected by hand to ensure top quality and functionality.

    • Due to heavy recoil in buck and slug loads, all 870 Police guns have a longer magazine spring which ensures positive feed and function.

    • A heavier sear spring is used to generate a reliable, positive trigger pull between 5 and 8 lbs.

    • A heavier carrier dog spring is used to ensure when the carrier elevates the shell, it will be held there until the bolt can push it into the chamber. This ensures positive feeding when using heavier payload rounds.

    • Police shotguns do not have an ISS (Integrated Safety System) which is a locking mechanism on the safety of commercial shotguns. This type of locking mechanism can cause delay to an officer who needs the weapon but does not have the appropriate key. LE shotguns have the standard, proven, cross bolt safety.

    • The fore-end on the Express model is longer and not compatible with many police shotgun vehicle racks.

    • The Police shotguns utilize the heavy duty SPEEDFEED Stocks and Fore-ends.

    • The Express model will not allow for the addition of an extension tube without physical modification to the tube and barrel, which can nullify the warranty.

    • The Express model has a BEAD BLAST BLUE finish while the Police models utilize either High Luster bluing or Parkerization.

    • The Express model utilizes a synthetic trigger housing while the Police models use a compressed metal housing.

    • The Police shotgun barrel is locked down with a “ball detent” system in conjunction with the magazine cap vs. a lesser grade “synthetic magazine spring retainer” lock down as used on the Express system.

    • The receivers used in Police guns are “vibra honed” to smooth out rough finishes and remove burrs before parkerization or bluing.

    • Police shotguns use machined ejectors and extractors, as opposed to powdered metal cast which are utilized on the Express models.
    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Note that the vaunted aluminum trigger guard was actually POWDERED, COMPRESSED aluminum.
    The polymer guard has proven to be just as good as the old aluminum guard and has some advantages.
    For one, the polymer guard will bend, flex and return to usable shape, where the aluminum guard just bent and broke.

    Now you know.
     

    Gravity3694

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    There is functionally no difference between the 870 Police and a Express. The only reason to buy a Police over an Express is the parkerized finish and the cool Police engraving. I own an 870P just for collectability. Everything in the above press release that Remington put out ages ago is just marketing. This statement is not just from me, but from a longtime Remington LE certified armorer.

    The polymer trigger guard is also better in my opinion. The aluminum ones can crack.
     

    TraderDan

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    Good to know, Thanks Gravity.
    You know you can't believe everything you read anywhere anymore.
     

    ilintner

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    Seems like the machined vs cast parts would be of some consequence, right?
     

    wildrider666

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    I was (no longer current) a Rem Armorer. I still have my publications and parts lists, which include specific LE parts based on model. Sure there is some marketing in the info. The Express and PD are "operated" the same way with the exception of the security lock. The upgraded parts "function" at a higher level. LE/Mil Reliability enhancements to the receiver and upgraded parts are done for a specific reason: the need to have a HIGHER level of reliability PERIOD. The Express is a good shotgun but it is not on the same level as the LE/Mil guns. That is the info I was providing. Why doesn't Remington make all their 870s like the LE? Money of course. The Express price point must me kept low to compete with other companies offerings in the pump gun market.

    The Alum trigger guards also wear badly in most locking racks too.

    http://gulfcoastgunforum.com/showth...r-and-Armorer-Manuals-Remington-Armors-Manual
     

    JohnAL

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    If anyone wants to get rid of the ISS (Integrated Safety System) key lock on any Remington shotgun, it only takes about $15 worth of parts and 10 minutes. No gunsmithing required. Just a parts swap.

    I don't like the Express at all for a bunch of reasons. They rust easily. The action is not smooth. The cast extractors break. The chambers are known to be rough causing the gun to lock up requiring you to "mortar" the butt stock on the ground to get the action open. All of these issues are well documented at places like the Shotgun World forum.
    They are still good guns for the money but I will stick with my old Wingmasters.
     

    1956_4x4

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    If anyone wants to get rid of the ISS (Integrated Safety System) key lock on any Remington shotgun, it only takes about $15 worth of parts and 10 minutes. No gunsmithing required. Just a parts swap.

    I don't like the Express at all for a bunch of reasons. They rust easily. The action is not smooth. The cast extractors break. The chambers are known to be rough causing the gun to lock up requiring you to "mortar" the butt stock on the ground to get the action open. All of these issues are well documented at places like the Shotgun World forum.
    They are still good guns for the money but I will stick with my old Wingmasters.

    I couldn't have said this any better. I had to replace a Wingmaster years ago. The Express had just come out and I was short on funds, so I bought one. This gun is so bad that I can't even bring myself to sell it to another person. I might have run 10 boxes of shells through during the first couple of months after I bought it. It functions like it had a cup of sand in the action. I have my Wingmasters again and that Express may never have a shell through it again.

    Smitty
     

    Burnt Drag

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    WR666, just a silly question, where does the "MarineMagnum" fall in the scheme of things. Mine is a safe queen most of the time. I'd just like to know how it stacks up with the "Police" version. I heard that FWC had them at one time.
     

    neohornet

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    I couldn't have said this any better. I had to replace a Wingmaster years ago. The Express had just come out and I was short on funds, so I bought one. This gun is so bad that I can't even bring myself to sell it to another person. I might have run 10 boxes of shells through during the first couple of months after I bought it. It functions like it had a cup of sand in the action. I have my Wingmasters again and that Express may never have a shell through it again.

    Smitty

    My 870 Super Express Magnum works just fine to shot birds and turkeys.
     

    jhamilton226

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    well I don't know where the hate for the 870 suddenly came from but I have to say I love my Marine Mag! Shot over a dozen cases of bird shot and magnum buckshot with no, repeat, NO problems...its a matter of how you care for your weapon as to how well it will function...and like DaBreeze said it doesn't really matter what model it is when you get hit by it...you're still seriously messed up afterwards! And besides those who know and can afford it just get a Benelli and call it a day :thumb: my 2 cents from an 870 fan
     

    1956_4x4

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    No hate for the 870 and it's not a case of proper maintenance on the weapon. I have multiple 870 Wingmasters and 1100s. They are good shotguns. My Express was crap from the day I bought it new. I tried to like it, but it is what it is. Like I said, maybe I just got a bad one...

    Smitty
     

    wildrider666

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    WR666, just a silly question, where does the "MarineMagnum" fall in the scheme of things. Mine is a safe queen most of the time. I'd just like to know how it stacks up with the "Police" version. I heard that FWC had them at one time.

    "Marine" in this application is in reference to the finish being more durable in a water environment like a Shark shooter on a boat or to repel borders. There is no upgrade to parts as far as I know. Not Marine Corps Use, Spec or qualities. Several manufactures make shotguns with similar finish.

    I've done a lot of miles with an 870 in the rack and a more then a few minutes with it out. rack the slide hard every time and it will not let you down. It is a easy shotgun to tactical and combat load.

    My Scatter gun is a old H&K Benelli imported M3. Pump/Semi Auto action. Pistol grip, long feed tube and rifled sights. You can load them short mexican shells and shoot all day! With reg 2&3/4 shells you fill the tube, drop on in the chamber, then lay another on the elevator and slowly close bolt. Ready for bear now!
     
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    jhamilton226

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    Sorry Smitty not trying to call your maintenance and handling practices into question at all...just saying in general that is why most people come to think a particular gun is junk (though there are plenty of P.O.S.'s running around I know) is because they shot the hell out of it but never bothered to clean the dang thing then wonder why it fowled up after the 500th round! :frusty: again, not describing you sir, or most other folks on here for that matter! Anyways just saying, I like my Express, its been a great gun and always shoots true...but there are bad runs in every production line just about, its a shame you had to deal with one...
     

    Ken232

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    For me I've been a Winchester fan and Brownings most of my life, I did have an Express and it was stiff, hard to cycle, and I was ready to toss it. A friend of mine who was a gunsmith took it and change out the extractors and he polished the chambers some...cost me a little but the gun was like a totally different firearm. put alot of game in the freezer with it until my brother asked me to borrow it a few years back....I got a couple of Winchester 1300's now and he still loves it
     

    moron1

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    I have owned an Express and a Wingmaster. The Wingmaster was smoother with no feed or extraction problems. The Expess was rough and when using aluminum base shells (such as Winchester 100 round bulk packs) it suffered from hard extraction. I used a brake hone to cure the extraction issue. I also polished the contact points on the pump slide bars and now it is nearly as smooth as the Wingmaster. I didn't know about the differences of the police model; If I ever come across one I will be very tempted to buy it if the price is right. Then I'll sell the Express to recoup some money.
     

    Gravity3694

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    I have owned an Express and a Wingmaster. The Wingmaster was smoother with no feed or extraction problems. The Expess was rough and when using aluminum base shells (such as Winchester 100 round bulk packs) it suffered from hard extraction. I used a brake hone to cure the extraction issue. I also polished the contact points on the pump slide bars and now it is nearly as smooth as the Wingmaster. I didn't know about the differences of the police model; If I ever come across one I will be very tempted to buy it if the price is right. Then I'll sell the Express to recoup some money.

    There's your problem. Winchester bulk packs jam every shotgun. (I've seen them jam these. Benelli, Ithaca 37, Remington 870, Mossberg). I haven't bought a Winchester bulk pack in a year plus and most stores discount them because everyone knows they aren't great.

    It seems that since 2008 the Express chambers have been a little rough from the factory from what everyone has been saying. However, a little hand honing should get the job done.
    IIRC, the cost difference in parts between a Express and Police is $27 (roughly 2010-2011 prices from the Remington parts catalog). I still don't see any reason a Police is needed over a well manufactured Express. $200 and you get a parkerized finish, beefier springs, a smoother internal finish and a cool rollmark; your choice.
     
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