alec baldwin's shooting

[BluesBrother]

October 26, 2021
Fox News reported that a "prop" gun was not handed to baldwin. An actual firearm was handed to him. I didn't know this before but prop guns have a shorter chamber limiting the length of the round that can be put in them. They can not chamber 45LC. Blanks are much shorter than 45LC. Much like trying to chamber a 357 Mag into a cylinder reamed for 38 Special. It won't fully chamber and the cylinder can't be closed.

October 27, 2021
In the days since the incident, the firearm that was discharged has been referred to as a prop gun, but Mary Carmack-Altwies district attorney of New Mexico took issue with the term. "It was a legit gun," she said, though she did not mention a specific kind. "It was an antique-era appropriate gun."

 

[MauserLarry]

You guys have presented such good arguments I have now changed my mind. I became too focused on the "this is that guys job" and you are not allowed to do his, or her, job because of the rules we have. I was handed a shotgun after a hunt years ago to clean and the owner said "it ain't loaded". Well, to start cleaning, I had to rack it back and a shell flew out. Fortunately all that happened was a bunch of cussin'. Could've been worse. I always check now and Alec Baldwin should have checked also.

 

[janus]

They're supposed to be play acting. Why was live ammo ever on the set? If it was common knowledge live ammo was on the set check and double check all fire arms. I also heard that safety checking a fire arm is a union job and no one but the approved union person can check a fire arm.

That's the ultimate stupid to do that.

 

[SAWMAN]

Lets get over "prop gun".
A prop gun will not fire a projectile out of the bbl. It is mechanically and physically impossible to expell a bullet.
This WAS NOT a "prop gun". ---- SAWMAN

 

[Q2arrowhunter]

Deleted comment. Additional information obtained.

 

[BluesBrother]

Q2arrowhunter said: "Why was he in modern street clothes (or so it appears in the photos of him acting all torn up about it)? Also if standing behind the camera why would you not step to the side so you were not staring down the muzzle?"

Hollywood types, not big on common sense.

 

[DAS HUGH!]

I noticed that also. They said he was between shots and in front of camera. But showed very soon after photos of him in street clothes. It was odd. Maybe by then police collected the costume tho

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[ElectroChris]

I have some "insider information". I worked in props and weapons in film in the 90s. One of my jobs was weapons handling on the first season of Walker. I have worked several shows that had "live fire" on set.

Due to my proper upbringing with guns, experience, and demonstration of such on set, I gained the trust of the weaponsmaster on that set, and quickly became a trusted member of the weapons team. That weaponsmaster turned down the Rust film, referring to it as a POS film due to low budget and requests for discounts. Any person reading this likely possesses the same boy scout qualities that got me the weapons job. If you read carefully - that film did not have an experienced weaponsmaster on staff.

I was frequently the person on set with the guns, the blanks, and the responsibility (when only one gun. More than one - we had a team of weapons handlers). I would sometimes stop production to make sure the actor was comfortable with the hot gun I was handing them that had blanks loaded. Some actors had questions or were nervous. "How much will it kick?" I would ask the AD to give us a couple of minutes. Everyone was ready to film the shot, and watched as we got the actor comfortable, including occasionally asking the director for permission to test fire the weapon. The guns with blanks were not loaded until the director was waiting to yell action. All activity stopped as I inserted the mag and chambered a round. I yell "WEAPON IS HOT" loud enough that the people next to me jump as I hand it to the actor. I tell the actor, loud enough for everyone to hear - "THE WEAPON IS HOT. WHEN YOU PULL THE TRIGGER THE WEAPON WILL FIRE". The safety is off as I hand it, because the next action is the actor pulling the trigger, and we need it to go "BANG". I have spent the last 30 minutes offering everyone on set ear protection. I have given Flents earplugs to the MU folks, who cut them in half, stuff them in the actors ears and appy makeup as needed. (Flents are already skin colored). Just before I give the AD the thumbs up that the actor and weapon are ready, I yell "WEAPON IS HOT. THERE WILL BE GUNFIRE IN THIS SHOT." They jump again when I start. Thumbs up to the AD.
After the director yells "cut" I immediately tackle the actor to retrieve the weapon, and clear it while everyone watches. I will yell "WEAPON CLEAR" as soon as the weapon is clear. I interrupt any conversation that may be taking place to make my announcements.
I separate the mag, and secure the UNLOADED weapon in a LOCKED DRAWER in my prop cart.
I field clean the guns that evening, and lock them in a safe we have bolted to the floor of our props trailer. If we have a lot of ARs they may be stored in a locking Knack box, that is chained to the trailer or something else that will not move.

How did an AD get access to the gun???
WHY IN THE HELL WAS THERE LIVE AMMO ON SET???

There are so many places that film failed on gun safety.

A gun accident would NEVER happen on a well run, properly staffed set. There are hundreds of films made each year with guns that have NO firearms accidents. This film had two gun accidents before the one that took a life.

Regarding the Brandon Lee incident... On a previous shot they wanted to see the bullets in the cylinders for a camera close up. Later the prop guy dumped the dummy bullets, and one case was missing the bullet head. He looked around for it, but not in the most important place. On a later shot - the blank was loaded in, just behind the missing lead. Part of my boy scout training was to look down the barrel of a gun whose chamber was open and inspect for obstructions. I kept a flashlight on me at all times for that purpose. That was a sad accident.

PSS - "prop guns" are guns. Revolvers work as prop guns out of the box. Auto cycling guns are modified. The barrel is tapped on the inside, and a gas restrictor is threaded into the barrel. It has a hole just big enough to let gas out, but keep enough gas to cycle the action. You usually have to stiff arm the auto cycling guns, because the gas restrictor still does not create the pressure that a bullet does. An auto cycler with a live round loaded will blow up in your hand.

 

[janus]

Sorry, I don't follow you.

 

[janus]

Lets get over "prop gun".
A prop gun will not fire a projectile out of the bbl. It is mechanically and physically impossible to expell a bullet.
This WAS NOT a "prop gun". ---- SAWMAN

The DA says it was a real gun.

 

[DONE DEAL!]

The absolute only question I have is why the cinematographer was in the line of fire? Was there a scene that involved her being either in the shot, or to have the trigger pulled while pointed at her?

Some images are taken as last sight, looking down the barrel from a victim's perspective.

 

[Duckyou]

Pieta in 45 Long Colt. Live ammo. Bullet recovered from the 2nd victims shoulder.

I don’t see how they cannot file charges against Baldwin - but it sounds like they are trying not to.

 

[janus]

Pieta in 45 Long Colt. Live ammo. Bullet recovered from the 2nd victims shoulder.

I don’t see how they cannot file charges against Baldwin - but it sounds like they are trying not to.

I just saw a video with what looked like the sheriff there talking about how they had a "lead projectile" and to me he seemed to be stammering all over himself to not say "bullet". Also, he was saying how the FBI had the bullet and the case and the gun and they were doing tests to see if the bullet came from that gun. It was like he was talking all around it and like it was some kind of magic or something when ballistics matching had been a known science for decades.

 

[ElectroChris]

I've been doing "research" all my life. When I was middle schooler i was twisting the lead off of 22s and pouring it on a rock and putting a firecracker fuse close to it. "research" in this case would take about 20 seconds. I doubt anyone on here HASN'T done that research....

 

[Q2arrowhunter]

View attachment 135046
Sorry, I don't follow you.

Disregard. It deleted my entire post but your name. See the post just below that one. He changed clothes.

 

[MarkS]

Just saw where the assistant director is getting blamed for not checking the gun before handing it to Baldwin
I still think Alec Baldwin should be responsible for not checking the gun himself. He was cutting corners in a lot of ways the biggest being no qualified weapons master on the set


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[Duckyou]

If anyone who was not famous was handed a firearm, even if they were told it was unloaded, and they pointed it, cocked it, and pulled the trigger - resulting in the death of another, then there would be an immediate arrest and charges of at least involuntary manslaughter.

 

[DAS HUGH!]

We can't yet exclude the possibility it was checked also btw. Meaning the AD did in fact check it. And Alec wanted to be a prankster and pop in a blank to play a joke or have fun etc. But slipped in a live round. There was a fannypack nearby I heard with a mix of live and blank ammo. Which is more reasons why someone including Alec.. and the camera people behind the shot.. should have checked it. I wonder if anyone kept an eye on the gun the whole time from when it left the cart to when he pulled the trigger. He just seems to me like the kind of ass that would do such a thing and then blame others lol

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[Snake-Eyes]

Alec Baldwin Shoots Woman Dead: Innocent Accident, or Involuntary Manslaughter? – Law of Self Defense

lawofselfdefense.com

^--- Good legal review of how to look at the incident, depending on the facts of the case (which are "strangely difficult" to find out).

Updated info in the article I linked Monday:

"UPDATE: It would appear that this tragic event, as new facts continue to be revealed, is a pretty textbook case of involuntary manslaughter under New Mexico law. Per the New Mexico Supreme Court:

“All that it is necessary to establish for involuntary manslaughter by the use of a loaded firearm is that a defendant had in his hands a gun which at some time had been loaded and that he handled it, whether drunk, drinking or sober, without due caution and circumspection and that death resulted.”

State v. Gilliam, 288 P.2d 675 (NM Sup. Ct. 1955)"

Also from the article:

"Under New Mexico law involuntary
manslaughter is a fourth-degree felony normally punishable by up to 18 months in prison and a $5,000 fine."


As I opined previously, Alec Baldwin should be warming a jail cell already.

 

[macdavid]

As most have said and most agree, I am not aiming a gun or pointing a gun at anyone without 100% it being checked , that was the first thing my father taught me 50 years ago. It is very tragic but guns are not for play and goofing around with, movie or no movie.