Trump orders DOJ to issue rule banning bump stocks

[FLT]

In every great country there are folks that want to see it's demise. They are willing to do what ever evil that's necessary to accomplish their goal. The problem as I see it , is that it's getting more and more difficult to tell who they are. The bickering that we do among ourselves on the fine points of who we personally like or dislike is doing little to change anything. I am very afraid that it will only get worse from this point on ,and truly feel sorry for the younger folks that will never have the freedom that I've enjoyed most of my life.

 

[rtprthd]

Ya know, I never did like Sessions and I always expected his silence and inaction on the obvious Clinton crimes was because someone had some serious dirt/evidence on him. Looks like now it's being used to influence his actions/decisions.

Hell I think it's just cuz he knows Trump fires anyone who disagrees with him. So far the only swamp he's drained has been his own. None of this surprises me. I always thought he was a bleeding heart NY liberal who felt it would be easier to become president if he pretended to be a republican. I still voted for him and don't regret it because....Hillary. The only regret I have is not voting in the primary to do my part to have kept him out of the race. Lesson learned.

 

[IronBeard]

In every great country there are folks that want to see it's demise. They are willing to do what ever evil that's necessary to accomplish their goal. The problem as I see it , is that it's getting more and more difficult to tell who they are. The bickering that we do among ourselves on the fine points of who we personally like or dislike is doing little to change anything. I am very afraid that it will only get worse from this point on ,and truly feel sorry for the younger folks that will never have the freedom that I've enjoyed most of my life.

Ever considered that there are many of all ages who do not want freedom if it means effort or inconvenience on their part? I see way too many in society that would rather follow the rules of the nanny state than forge out on their own.

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[JBryan314]

I'm glad to see a few members here have the right idea, which is to ignore the federal fools who think they have the right to infringe on your natural right to self defense. Ignore them. I don't own any bump stocks, because I didn't really even know of their existence until they made the news, but if I did own any, I STILL WOULD.

Trump and Sessions can fuck themselves.

 

[fl57caveman]

interesting pov from a mass shooting survivor


https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/eagles-death-metal-apos-jesse-131129513.html

 

[FrommerStop]

What is happening is a version of the russian sled story that when attacked by wolves is that you throw someone out of the sled to appease the wolves. In some of these stories the wolves also pull down the horses and then attack and eat the remaining passengers. This is what is happening at the moment. They are throwing out the bump stocks to be devoured and hope that will satisfy some very hungry antigun wolves, but just as likely when the wolves or sharks smell the blood a feeding frenzy begins.

SAD.

 

[fl57caveman]

wasserman is proposing background checks on ammo sales in florida..



i propose background checks on lawmakers, including drug & alcohol testing

 

[IronBeard]

What is happening is a version of the russian sled story that when attacked by wolves is that you throw someone out of the sled to appease the wolves. In some of these stories the wolves also pull down the horses and then attack and eat the remaining passengers. This is what is happening at the moment. They are throwing out the bump stocks to be devoured and hope that will satisfy some very hungry antigun wolves, but just as likely when the wolves or sharks smell the blood a feeding frenzy begins.

SAD.

Good points, but in this story, the sheep dogs are throwing eachother to the sheep, and the wolves are ashamed that sheepdogs fear the sheep.

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[IronBeard]

wasserman is proposing background checks on ammo sales in florida..



i propose background checks on lawmakers, including drug & alcohol testing

I agree with your background checks, recommend random breathalyzer and urinalysis for at least 10% at each legislative session, and will add the new florida red flag/mental health provision needs to be applied retroactively to all law enforcement in the state; amyone that is armed as part of their job. Let's see some leadership; set the example, "for the children." After all, if you aren't doing anything wrong, what do you have to hide? Who's first?

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[Droshki]

I'm surprised there isn't more pushback on this on the national and industry levels. Can someone tell what the NRA's position on this is?

 

[Droshki]

Apparently the Trump administration isnt big on following the constitution about anything, really:


Treasury Secretary Steven Mnuchin: “I think they should give the president a line-item veto.”

Chris Wallace: “But that’s been ruled unconstitutional by the Supreme Court, sir.”

Mnuchin: “Well, again, Congress could pass a rule, okay, that allows them to do it.”

Wallace: “No, no, sir, it would be a constitutional amendment.”

Mnuchin: “Chris, we don’t — we don’t need to get into a debate in terms of — there’s different ways of doing this.”

— Exchange on “Fox News Sunday,” March 25

 

[wildrider666]

The only silver lining in this crap storm is that doing the change this way keep it s focus very narrow. If there was a Congerssional Open Season to submit changes to the NFA and the GCA, the battle would be on a wide front with possibly hundreds of recommend changes to fight or politicians to "find compromise" which always translates to a loss.

I also fear the precedent it sets: What was not a machinegun, is now a machinegun due to a "new interpetation". The same could be done for AR15 or muskets. We are endangered either way.

 

[fl57caveman]

"America is at that awkward stage. It's too late to work within the system, but too early to shoot the bastards." -- Claire Wolfe, [FONT=Arial,Helvetica,Univers,Zurich BT][SIZE=-1]101 Things to Do'Til the Revolution[/SIZE][/FONT]

 

[Ross7]

Lawsuit to come. So it would seem either the ATF gets authority to rewrite the law(s), or Congress will amend the NFA which could open a door to who knows what else. Neither a particularly good scenario.

Gun owners in Florida have laid the groundwork by suing to stop a portion of a new state law that bans sales or even possession of bump stocks within its borders.

One lawsuit says that amounts to a seizure of property without compensation — a violation of the Fifth Amendment, says the complaint filed by five Floridians who own bump stocks or similar devices.

Thomas E. Brandon, the acting ATF director, acknowledged difficulties in delivering a new interpretation. He said the more concrete way to ban bump stocks would be legislation from Congress either imposing the ban or making it clear that ATF has the authority to do so.

https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2018/mar/27/bump-stocks-ban-dispute-may-stop-trumps-gun-restri/

 

[Droshki]

Lawsuit to come. So it would seem either the ATF gets authority to rewrite the law(s), or Congress will amend the NFA which could open a door to who knows what else. Neither a particularly good scenario.



https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2018/mar/27/bump-stocks-ban-dispute-may-stop-trumps-gun-restri/

"Mr. Sessions said the department had worked around those concerns."

It would seem that the administration's argument in a court of law will be that they "worked around" the law.

 

[FrommerStop]

I am afraid we are on a downward legal spiral.

I am not looking forward to the below suggested future.

 

[wildrider666]

I read the entire Propasal document. Here is where the "shift" in interpretations (yes, more then one) is based: The Firearms and Ammunition Technology Devision have clear responsibilities (listed below) and have been at it fr a long time. This is the BATFE Devision that provided at least two seerate reviews and FEDERAL APPROVAL for bump fire type stocks. The Change Proposal is based on a NEW LEGAL INTERPETATION of the existing LAW and stating that prior "TECHNICAL interpretations" were incorrect, leading to device approvals being issued in error.

So the lawyers found a few Case where the Courts made interpetations and applied common language to simplify its application for "their" application, and the lawyers basically say the Tech Division can't read, understand or apply the Law.

Wow! For the sake of banning bump fire devices: they have undermined the technical and legal creditability of the Agency's own Duty Experts! It doesn't matter if we liked them or not, we knew where the lines were. I'll just let the rest of you wonder what they could "legally reinterpret" that could adversely stir the pot.

They mentioned the Atkins Accelerator (Ruger 1022). Originally approved, later banned as a mechanical device/machinegun. From my prior knowledge: ATF directed the Mfg to recall them (didn't get many back), bankrupted the Co. which also lost a series of Court cases for financial losses because the ATF approved it first, didn't fly. No reimbursement provided on any level, especially the Government which directed the devices be surrendered or destroyed: sound familiar?

From the BATFE Link:
The Firearms and Ammunition Technology Division (FATD) provides expert technical support to ATF, other Federal agencies, State and local law enforcement, the firearms industry, Congress, and the general public. This Division is responsible for technical determinations concerning types of firearms approved for importation into the United States and for rendering opinions regarding the classification of suspected illegal firearms and newly designed firearms. Further, FATD provides the U.S. Department of Justice, State prosecutors' offices, district attorneys' offices, and military courts with expert firearms testimony on the identification and origin of firearms and other matters relating to firearms and the firearms industry. The Division maintains an extensive firearms reference collection, as well as technical firearms reference files and library and firearms databases.

Mission
The mission of the Firearms and Ammunition Technology Division is to serve as ATF's technical authority relating to firearms and their classification under Federal laws; to respond to law enforcement agencies requests to test, evaluate, and provide expert testimony on firearms and ammunition; and to provide technical services to the firearms industry and other members of the public.

https://www.atf.gov/firearms/firearms-and-ammunition-technology

 

[DaSandmanCometh]

https://www.regulations.gov/comment?D=ATF-2018-0001-35714

Go post your comments to the proposed rule change.

 

[Droshki]

Thank you.

However, since there was no repercussions when bots using stolen identities posted up to 22 million fake comments at the rate hundreds of thousands per day on the net neutrality comment site, I fully expect the people controlling those bots to execute a repeat performance here. This is why it's important that we pull together as Americans.

 

[DaSandmanCometh]

If we don't try to fight this, then we will definitely loose. And loosing this will set a dangerous precedent where a agency is allowed to write laws, or change whatever they want when they want.