Ever thought about......

[Brandon_SPC]

I have thought about posting this for a while because I know it might get under peoples skin and I do apologize in advance. Have you ever thought about why our armed forces have been over seas for so long? Why has this been the longest war? I am not trying to pick a fight with anyone at all. I respect our military and believe ever service member deserves the best. But on that note have you ever sat and thought why we have been at war with "terrorism" for so long and haven't tried to deal with the terrorism here in the US? Why congress is worried about other countries besides us. Seems like to me the war is just a cover up so our politicians can pass their stupid agendas. I am just asking this question because I sat and thought about it and just putting pieces together. The most well trained men and women leave the United States and as those people are getting distracted (friend, family, service members etc) they try to push these unconstitutional laws. Now I can't really speak for being over there because I have never been sent on a deployment yet mainly because my unit hardly deploys. But looking at the whole picture that is what I see. I could sound crazy but I don't trust my government.

 

[Droshki]

op2:

 

[Seanpcola]

In a very small nutshell Brandon: politics.

The long explanation would take pages and there may be no real solid black and white answers. I do believe to an extent that the military/industrial complex prefers to generate a market for their products but that's only part of it.

I also think we're in these places due to poor judgement from the beginning along with no real goals set from the get-go.

You also have a replay of Vietnam in the mix. Politicians doing the planning without input from people that are trained in the art of war.

This is way simplistic but ......... lots of answers and opinions out there and my ideas on the way things should be done aren't backed by knowledge, experience and training, in my perfect world smart people would be in charge of deciding when and if we send in the troops. Once that decision is made they should just tell the military leadership what they want done, then sit the hell back and let them do their job without making up bullshit rules of engagement and picking the targets.

 

[Idoono]

Sean, you hit the nail on the head. Politicians (civilians) should never be allowed to run a war. Perhaps if all they did was point out who we will be at war with, and then stood back and let the military rain holy hell they would not be so quick to want to "help" people who do no even like us. Knowing the destruction that would be unleashed.

And Brandon, you are not crazy at all.

Idoono

 

[Brandon_SPC]

In a very small nutshell Brandon: politics.

The long explanation would take pages and there may be no real solid black and white answers. I do believe to an extent that the military/industrial complex prefers to generate a market for their products but that's only part of it.

I also think we're in these places due to poor judgement from the beginning along with no real goals set from the get-go.

You also have a replay of Vietnam in the mix. Politicians doing the planning without input from people that are trained in the art of war.

This is way simplistic but ......... lots of answers and opinions out there and my ideas on the way things should be done aren't backed by knowledge, experience and training, in my perfect world smart people would be in charge of deciding when and if we send in the troops. Once that decision is made they should just tell the military leadership what they want done, then sit the hell back and let them do their job without making up bullshit rules of engagement and picking the targets.

I agree

I know it is politics and damn understanding politics is freaking hard. I guess my assumption is wrong. I don't know just seems who is in office now and saying "oh they will come home" then "no we will send them back out" then as soon as that happens some bull crap agenda or bill tries to get passed. It is hard for someone my age to try and ingest what is going on when I have never experienced in any of it.

 

[FUPAGUNT]

$$$$$$$$

 

[DSPLCD1]

And what ever happened to the idea of "To the victor goes the Spoils". We rocked during Desert Storm/Desert Shield and yet we did not get to take over the land, instead we stay fix the damage and teach the people better ways to take care of themselves against others. Essentially teaching them how to fight us, Better???

 

[Seanpcola]

Also, add into the mixture you're talking about the Middle East. Forget trying to keep up with all those details. I mean, you need to know the basics but the wind shifts often.

What we are in is NOTHING like WWI or II. We had clear objectives, a defined enemy and no ambiguity as to who was on our side or not.

And like Idoono said, you're not crazy for wondering. It actually shows a lot more intelligence and awareness of the world than most people of your generation have,

Oh, and as for the subject of politics: See FUPAGUNT's reply.

 

[Telum Pisces]

We have been at war with the middle east and muslims for a lot longer than most can even imagine. Do some digging and reading on The Barbary War!

The Marine Corp has it in their Hymn by the way "from the shores of Tripoli!"

Most people forget or are not even taught our true history!!!!!!!

Muslims were seizing our citizens on the high seas and demanding high ransoms and when Thomas Jefferson refused to pay them and also pay the "tax" the muslims try to place on non-mulsims that they cannot convert or kill, they decided to pirate our ships and more.

Read up!!!!!!

We will never be at peace with Islam or the people that follow it!!!!! Christians have spent hundreds of years moderating their religion. Islam is just beginning to moderate somewhat. But there is a large part that are fighting to not bring their religion into the modern day world. Islam is not a religion of peace and will take many more centuries till "maybe" it can be modernized and evolve into a religion that can tolerate non-islam followers etc...

It's beyond politics and money. That plays a role. But even if we simply left them alone, they would still desire to reach out and conquer and kill non-muslim followers.

And it's because of the Barbary states that we have a Navy!!!!!! If people were really taught history instead of garbage we might go somewhere in this world.

You can even find this information on the liberal leaning Wikki:

In March 1785, Thomas Jefferson and John Adams went to London to negotiate with Tripoli's envoy, Ambassador Sidi Haji Abdrahaman (or Sidi Haji Abdul Rahman Adja). When they enquired "concerning the ground of the pretensions to make war upon nations who had done them no injury", the ambassador replied:

It was written in their Koran, that all nations which had not acknowledged the Prophet were sinners, whom it was the right and duty of the faithful to plunder and enslave; and that every mussulman who was slain in this warfare was sure to go to paradise. He said, also, that the man who was the first to board a vessel had one slave over and above his share, and that when they sprang to the deck of an enemy's ship, every sailor held a dagger in each hand and a third in his mouth; which usually struck such terror into the foe that they cried out for quarter at once.

Our world has become pansies! They think they can negotiate with someone willing to die for their belief!!! And a lot of people have figured out how to become rich off this mess too. But don't that overshadow the underlying cause and effect at hand here.

 

[Seanpcola]

What he said. Especially about history.^^^^^^^

Brandon, it would behoove you to really research and study history on your own. Not the bullshit you may have been taught in school or what you might pick up through Google. Seek out some of the classic history books and read up on the truthful and unsanitized stories. Like Telium said, this war with Islam goes back a loooooong way.

I truly don't see any way to ever end the conflict. The only way to end it would be to wipe out every single adherent to Islam on this planet and then destroy any history of it. No way to make that happen. It's an incurable cancer on this planet.

At best we could maybe back out, bring our guys home, protect our allies and seal up the borders. That might slow it down.

Even then, the problem is there are certain things we just can't do that on the face sounds good but on the other hand would make us violate our own principles.

 

[Dan1612]

If you take a roster of who is/was running Washington, you'll see that ALOT of them made or are making their fortunes from DoD contracts, through contacts and influence directly or indirectly. Cheney and Schmitz are 2 that immediately come to mind, but only because I've met them and know a little more about them. Peace isn't very profitable.


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[Droshki]

To quote Chalmers Johnson:

"When war becomes this profitable, you're going to see a lot more of it."

 

[Seanpcola]

To quote Chalmers Johnson:

"When war becomes this profitable, you're going to see a lot more of it."

And "Peace is those brief moments in history when everyone stands around reloading".

 

[Dan1612]

To quote Chalmers Johnson:
"When war becomes this profitable, you're going to see a lot more of it."

Hugely profitable! The entire DoD is becoming privatized. Basic stuff that GI's used to do are now being contracted out, the entire infrastructure in forward deployment areas is being handled by contractors. Food service, laundry, water, energy, security, maintenance, damn near everything can be traced back to the pockets of Washingtonians in power. It's kinda like insider trading, except it's ok, because it's tax payer money and it's going directly to those we elected to take care of it and us, so its perfectly good and legal. Right?


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[Crazydoc68]

This will never end until all islamist's are wiped off the face of this planet. Truth be told these "extremeists" used to be moderates. Wars over religions will never see an end. Plain and simple. It's not a war on terrorism. Its a war on Islam. The reason i say this is because it's the Islamists doing the terrorism.

Only the dead have seen the end of war...

 

[Droshki]

Hugely profitable! The entire DoD is becoming privatized. Basic stuff that GI's used to do are now being contracted out, the entire infrastructure in forward deployment areas is being handled by contractors. Food service, laundry, water, energy, security, maintenance, damn near everything can be traced back to the pockets of Washingtonians in power. It's kinda like insider trading, except it's ok, because it's tax payer money and it's going directly to those we elected to take care of it and us, so its perfectly good and legal. Right?


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I would highly recommend anyone that's curious about this subject, to watch the Sony pictures film by Eugene Jarecki titled "Why We Fight" (not to be confused with an earlier war propaganda movie by the same name). It lays out very well what Dante has discussed above. One the people featured in the film is Chalmers Johnson. He also has a movie, called Speaking Freely (which I think you can find on youtube), in which he discusses American Hegemony. He's also written four books on the subject.

 

[Snow Bird]

Dan what you said was something I could never understand. People fighting have to ask for bottled water? Even with the raises the mil have gotten it wouldn't cost as much as is spent now to take care of our own. I am tired so this might not make much sense but in Albany Ga there is an overhaul unit for mil equipment,Humvees and such. At diffrent times some civ from that overhaul unit are sent over seas...I will make a wild guess that they make 2 or 3 times what GI's make doing the same thing and working side by side while stateside.

Hell when I was in a long time ago civ were doing alot if not all the cooking in the chow hall with a mess sargent overlooking them.

Not makeing much sense but you get the jest of what I am trying to say. Time for me to get to bed so I can get up in the morning to shoot.

 

[Droshki]

This is the first 15 minutes of "Why We Fight". I believe you can get the whole film from Netflix. Im no longer a subscriber, so unsure.

Eisenhower foresaw all of this, with great clarity, as only a great military man would have been able to.

 

[Seanpcola]

Can't find it on Netflix.

 

[Seanpcola]

Dan what you said was something I could never understand. People fighting have to ask for bottled water? Even with the raises the mil have gotten it wouldn't cost as much as is spent now to take care of our own. I am tired so this might not make much sense but in Albany Ga there is an overhaul unit for mil equipment,Humvees and such. At diffrent times some civ from that overhaul unit are sent over seas...I will make a wild guess that they make 2 or 3 times what GI's make doing the same thing and working side by side while stateside.

Hell when I was in a long time ago civ were doing alot if not all the cooking in the chow hall with a mess sargent overlooking them.

Not makeing much sense but you get the jest of what I am trying to say. Time for me to get to bed so I can get up in the morning to shoot.

I would say "2 to 3 times as much salary" is an understatement. I've got buddies that contracted to the Stans for aircraft and helicopter work and they are making serious bank.