The last Extended Long Range Rifle.

[M118LR]

Since I'm growing Old and Just Joe is at the helm, I'm in search of a little knowledge as to what my last Extended Long Range Semi-automatic rifle purchase should be?

1. It needs to be .308 Win/7.62 NATO so that I can use it at Military Ranges like the Red Cloud Range at Fort Stewart.

I've used AR10 style, SCAR's, even HK's, yet none of them have proven to be as accurate as an Old M1A Super Match. But the Super Match M1A Stock to Scope Height problem is it's limiting factor.

2. It needs to outperform the 22 inch air gauged barrel of an M1A Super Match at the 1K line.

3. The price point of a M1A Super Match is about 3.5K, so Max Initial cost has to be below 5K.

Any experienced opinions? Actual trigger time? Perhaps even a WAG or SWAG that could lead me down the forked road to an Extended Long Range Semi-Automatic .308/7.62 final rifle?

All inputs shall be appreciated, and summarily wieghed. Thank Y'all in advance.

 

[Duckyou]

Good AR-10.

I have been partial to Larue (yes he is a Dick but so is every popular gun maker) and they are in your price point.

There are many more high end - KNights armament has some good high end options.

JP rifle is good.

I have read that the SCAR 20s are good - but some do not shoot MOA from what I have read. I don’t like the reciprocating charge handle on them.

 

[Baddog 0302]

You mention Stock to Scope Height problem is it's limiting factor on the OME M1A SM. Have you had any hands with the Magpul's Archangel stock for the M1A ?
Archangel

 

[M118LR]

You mention Stock to Scope Height problem is it's limiting factor on the OME M1A SM. Have you had any hands with the Magpul's Archangel stock for the M1A ?
Archangel

I investigated it, yet I went with Tanks metal floor plate M25 Style so that the rifle could maintain a repeatable zero after cleaning. (The M1A Super Match has an extra attachment point when compared to say a Standard M1A/Actual M14.) H2OMan guided me to the CASM Mount when Mother Nature had taken my eyesight from the excellent irons, and forced me to use glass to outperform the "Nut behind the butt".

As to my history with America's finest at Fort Stewart, I've got a few invitations from folks served with in days gone bye, to sharpen other peoples children as to what is expected of them at the tip of the sword. Them Eagle Eyed youngsters armed with Knights & SCARS began to understand why they are considered armed with Sniper Support Firearms. Let's just say that 20 or less inch barrels with M118LR or updates have a small problem under medium or high wind conditions at the 1K line. But it did also Humble Me that some folks so armed managed to outperform an Old Man with an Old Weapon. In it's day the Army M21 & M24 performance at the 1K Range was just a matter of Shooter Skills/Nuisances.

So Thank You Duckyou, But the M21 & M24 might not perform to M40 or M25 Navy/Marine mechanical accuracy, yet even the Venerated XM3 isn't able to perform at the time tested proficiency of an air gauged 22 inch barrel of the XM21/NM14. I've heard some mumbling about a G10, yet I have yet to sit beside anyone so armed on a range. Could you please expound on the JP rifle, I've only sat with or witnessed JP Bolt Actions in my experience. Thank You.

 

[Duckyou]

JP - LRI-20™ Semi-Monolithic Long Range Precision Upper

PredatOBR 7.62 - LaRue Tactical

20 Inch LaRue Tactical OBR (Optimized Battle Rifle) Complete 7.62 Rifle - LaRue Tactical

There are more high end options out there.

Also - most of these are made to run match loads or hand loads.

 

[SAWMAN]

Just gotta ask because this kinda interests me (almost).
Not a loaded question. Not ready with a WTF answer/rebuttal . . BUT - -> what kind of accuracy are you looking for,and why ?? Snapping back to reality - -> what ranges are you talking about putting hits on ?? What size targets are you suspecting ?? How fast do your shots have to be ?? (shot string) Time to first shot,spaceing between shots ?? How many total shots ?? ---- SAWMAN

 

[Raven]

If I were spending $5,000 on a rifle it would most definitely not be in 308. Although I get why you want it. Whatever it is I'd want it to have a piston gas system. The AR10 based Reaper has a piston system, but I don't remember who makes it. I also once saw a Chinese Dragunov in 308 for $5,000 at a show up north.

 

[Raven]

The Reaper is a left side charging AR10, too. Most AR10's aren't. The Savage AR10 is also left side charging, for half the cost of a Reaper

 

[Duckyou]

If I were spending $5,000 on a rifle it would most definitely not be in 308. Although I get why you want it. Whatever it is I'd want it to have a piston gas system. The AR10 based Reaper has a piston system, but I don't remember who makes it. I also once saw a Chinese Dragunov in 308 for $5,000 at a show up north.

Skip the reaper. I almost bought one but did a lot of research and found out that they have a host of problems- accuracy being one, and customer service seems to think it is end user issues.

 

[Raven]

Skip the reaper. I almost bought one but did a lot of research and found out that they have a host of problems- accuracy being one, and customer service seems to think it is end user issues.

Wow, close call for me

 

[Raven]

I traded half my collection for a DPMS Super SASS at Jays 2 instead. Then got laid off and sold it to a different FFL up north for more than I paid for it

 

[Rebel_Rider1969]

Triggers and ME are the biggest stumbling blocks on any rifle and quality ammo. Ph yeah and the glass on it.

 

[M118LR]

Just gotta ask because this kinda interests me (almost).
Not a loaded question. Not ready with a WTF answer/rebuttal . . BUT - -> what kind of accuracy are you looking for,and why ?? Snapping back to reality - -> what ranges are you talking about putting hits on ?? What size targets are you suspecting ?? How fast do your shots have to be ?? (shot string) Time to first shot,spaceing between shots ?? How many total shots ?? ---- SAWMAN

I'd like to get between .5-.75 MOA @ 1K. that should keep the 12 inch steel ringing at the Red Cloud range. Shots taken at 1K don't require a high cyclic rate, but it's nice not to have to manipulate a bolt and keep a singular solid cheek weld. JMO.
24-26 inch barrels give the 175 SMK it's best chance when the wind comes up, but they are rather cumbersome. The 22 inch barrel on an M1ASM has outperformed the shorter barrels used on AR type rifles, but that might be due to the powders/loads that mimic military loadings that I use? This is an Extra Long Range Target Rifle.

 

[Jhunter]

I think your expectations are slightly possible but your choice of caliber and the semi auto system will be your draw back. On a perfect day an 8” group at 1k from a bolt gun with a single point cut barrel would be worth bragging about with M118 or AB39. The AR 10 platform is a different story and when the winds pick up above 7 mph you will be frustrated with the 175 smk at that distance. Minute of man will be hard to hold at 1000. I just spent a weekend shooting M118 and the 80 SMk .224 at 2900 FPS at 1000-1400 yards. They both may have been 2.5 MOA at that distance in a 5 mph full value wind. I grab a 6mm with a 109 hybrid moving 2885 FPS and start shooting sub MOA. I realize the 6 does not have the energy of the 308 but an impact is better than a miss https://www.accurateshooter.com/competition/1000-yard-benchrest-guide/

 

[Rebel_Rider1969]

I think your expectations are slightly possible but your choice of caliber and the semi auto system will be your draw back. On a perfect day an 8” group at 1k from a bolt gun with a single point cut barrel would be worth bragging about with M118 or AB39. The AR 10 platform is a different story and when the winds pick up above 7 mph you will be frustrated with the 175 smk at that distance. Minute of man will be hard to hold at 1000. I just spent a weekend shooting M118 and the 80 SMk .224 at 2900 FPS at 1000-1400 yards. They both may have been 2.5 MOA at that distance in a 5 mph full value wind. I grab a 6mm with a 109 hybrid moving 2885 FPS and start shooting sub MOA. I realize the 6 does not have the energy of the 308 but an impact is better than a miss https://www.accurateshooter.com/competition/1000-yard-benchrest-guide/

When you say 224 is that the valkrie?? .224V

 

[Jhunter]

When you say 224 is that the valkrie??

26” Bartlein 5R, 223 Compass Lake reamer, Surgeon action

 

[Rebel_Rider1969]

26” Bartlein 5R, 223 Compass Lake reamer, Surgeon action

Custom job. Nice. So I'm guessing 1:5 twist?

 

[M118LR]

I think your expectations are slightly possible but your choice of caliber and the semi auto system will be your draw back. On a perfect day an 8” group at 1k from a bolt gun with a single point cut barrel would be worth bragging about with M118 or AB39. The AR 10 platform is a different story and when the winds pick up above 7 mph you will be frustrated with the 175 smk at that distance. Minute of man will be hard to hold at 1000. I just spent a weekend shooting M118 and the 80 SMk .224 at 2900 FPS at 1000-1400 yards. They both may have been 2.5 MOA at that distance in a 5 mph full value wind. I grab a 6mm with a 109 hybrid moving 2885 FPS and start shooting sub MOA. I realize the 6 does not have the energy of the 308 but an impact is better than a miss https://www.accurateshooter.com/competition/1000-yard-benchrest-guide/

Now 10.47 inches is MOA @1K yards. The mechanical accuracy of the platform usually outperforms the abilities of "The Nutt behind the Butt". Far to many decades ago I might have been able to outscore a M25 with a M40 (M21 & M24 for Army Infantry Folk) on the 1000 yard KD Range, but shooter skills have deteriorated to the point that I can no longer disseminate the difference in score between the two. Both platforms (shooter able) could be expected to hold at least .75 MOA and more performed closer to .5 than .75. with M118LR or MK316. The higher sectional Density of the projectile leads to a better ballistic coefficient when holding all other factors as constants. Ballistic coefficient has a lot to due with wind drift. Now all gas drawn actions loose a little when compared to a solid bolt action, (ie a Mac Millan TAC 50 has a longer effective range than a Semi-automatic Barrett .50 BMG) but the difference isn't noticeable unless the shooter has the ability to place the round on target at the maximum distance of either. JMHO.
It is my belief that an AR style rifle with a heavy air gauged 5R-6R Douglas barrel of 22 inches or more should be able to replicate the accuracy of an M1ASM. In example AR style rifles in 5.56 have shattered most every M14/M1A score on the 300 & 600 yard lines. Yet Mac's 100 yard group held for several decades. Yet it was broken by a Custom rifle with a Wildcat round and an exceptional shooter.

 

[Ric-san]

What about a Ruger Precision Rifle...? They come in both .308 and 6.5 Creedmore and maybe more calibers now also.

 

[TK5o]

Or a savage ba110 stealth