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Telum Pisces

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OK, I am noticing that as I get into reloading that there are not many books or information about reloading self defense projectiles. Is this because of liability for the people providing the loading information etc...???

I notice that gold dot is practically the only projectile component available consistently for handgun re-loaders etc... Is it just too much craziness to put the information and components out there for handgun self defense reloading? Sorry about the newby question here. It's not even so much as it's what I want to carry. But I want to practice more with the carry rounds if I'm reloading more now.
 
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donr101395

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I think it has more to do with scale of economy. They sell a lot more FMJ and hunting components because most people don't want to reload SD ammo and work up loads that approximate their carry load using a fmj or flat point bullet.
 

Bowhntr6pt

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I'd like to post here before the "don't use reloads for self defense because of liability" BS gets posted. DF is DF... period, matters not what you use, what matters is was the DF justified based on the Reasonable Prudent Person standard.

With that said, there are plenty of manuals with load data for jacketed bullets in both soft point and hollow point construction. Just select the same bullet weight and general design/construction, reduce 10%, and work up.

You will want a chronograph to compare your loads to factory samples.

By using data for a jacketed bullet in the same weight category and reducing by 10% and working up, you can safely account for any variations in bullet design. You don't have to have absolute data for a specific bullet.
 

RackinRay

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Deadly Force (DF) is just that, but only in a criminal case determination as to justification on the use of DF

I do believe that custom hand loads might become a focal issue in a Civil trial that could result even in a justified shooting as a Wrongful Death Lawsuit. I have heard it from legal minds that had no dog in the fight, and I do believe that custom ammo could result in a favorable finding for the plaintive, if presented as the hand loads were deliberately made to be more deadly. So I avoid that possibility as I would rather NOT deal with jurist feelings or perceptions, especially after several of the jury experiences I had as an LEO. I try to use ammo used by local law enforcement agencies as much as possible just to help avoid such an issue being raised.

I keep my carry weapons stock for the most part, and only make changes I feel comfortable to be able to explain as to why I made them to satisfy a Civil Jury should that lawsuit occur.
 

Bowhntr6pt

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Deadly Force (DF) is just that, but only in a criminal case determination as to justification on the use of DF

I do believe that custom hand loads might become a focal issue in a Civil trial that could result even in a justified shooting as a Wrongful Death Lawsuit. I have heard it from legal minds that had no dog in the fight, and I do believe that custom ammo could result in a favorable finding for the plaintive, if presented as the hand loads were deliberately made to be more deadly. So I avoid that possibility as I would rather NOT deal with jurist feelings or perceptions, especially after several of the jury experiences I had as an LEO. I try to use ammo used by local law enforcement agencies as much as possible just to help avoid such an issue being raised.

I keep my carry weapons stock for the most part, and only make changes I feel comfortable to be able to explain as to why I made them to satisfy a Civil Jury should that lawsuit occur.
I knew it was coming...LOL.

I really got a good laugh out of the "deliberately more deadly" part. We're talking about hand loading commercial projectiles readily available to the public, not crafting projectiles, drilling holes in them, and then filling them with monkey poop.
 

Telum Pisces

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I'd like to post here before the "don't use reloads for self defense because of liability" BS gets posted. DF is DF... period, matters not what you use, what matters is was the DF justified based on the Reasonable Prudent Person standard.

With that said, there are plenty of manuals with load data for jacketed bullets in both soft point and hollow point construction. Just select the same bullet weight and general design/construction, reduce 10%, and work up.

You will want a chronograph to compare your loads to factory samples.

By using data for a jacketed bullet in the same weight category and reducing by 10% and working up, you can safely account for any variations in bullet design. You don't have to have absolute data for a specific bullet.
Thanks and I was thinking along those same lines! Thanks again! New to this reloading stuff.
 

Bowhntr6pt

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Did not mean to side track your thread.

As you can se, there are those who think using home rolled fodder can open up the liability door... it's a topic that's been beat to death for years on the internet and never played out in real life, that I've been able to find and verify.

My opinion on the matter is just that, my opinion. And my opinion does not matter... I'm just a dude on the internet.

If you decide to subscribe to the notion using hand loads could cause you issues, then just practice with your "factory duplicated" loads, as I've indicated how to do, and then just fill your SD piece with a factory product.
 

SAWMAN

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As stated above . . . my FACTORY practice loads shoot to the exact same POI using the same POA as do my FACTORY HD/SD/hunting loads do.
This,with my 10mm,and 357Sig's.
Wont join the "fray" but will just leave - - -> A GOOD SHOOT . . IS A GOOD SHOOT !! --- SAWMAN
 

Bowhntr6pt

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As stated above . . . my FACTORY practice loads shoot to the exact same POI using the same POA as do my FACTORY HD/SD/hunting loads do.
This,with my 10mm,and 357Sig's.
Wont join the "fray" but will just leave - - -> A GOOD SHOOT . . IS A GOOD SHOOT !! --- SAWMAN
One will need to read the following with a CLINT SMITH voice...

Why did I shoot your client with reloads? Because that's the ammunition that was in my gun at the time I needed to defend myself.

LOL
 

FLT

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why did I shoot your client with reloads??? , because I can’t afford those top shelf $1.50 a piece self defense cartridges that your client loads his pistol with.
 

SAWMAN

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And . . IMO - - -> for SD/HD pistol,for me anyway,the distance will only be 7yds . . 15 MAX. I make sure my practice ammo and my carry/home ammo is correct for R/L. U/D is not really critical. It hits the second button down or third. He's dead. This might not be acceptable for "trainers" or competive shooters . . BUT . . it is real world common sense.
Nowadays it is hard,meticulous,and somewhat expensive,to produce handloads that are as reliable,fast (or slow) for both rifle or pistol/revo. Some powders and bullets are not released as reloading components. Some factory ammo uses a duplex or even a triplex load. (At least they used to.)
ME . . . in some cases I would much rather be shooting or hunting than stuck behind my reloading bench. YMMV :rolleyes: --- SAWMAN
 

FrommerStop

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In 9x19 I have assorted self defense loads on hand and will not be reloading pistol ammo for self defense or training in the short term. A box of SD rounds is plenty of ammo.
I probably will not be reloading any buckshot either.

It is likely rifle that I will be forced to reload.
 

Telum Pisces

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in some cases I would much rather be shooting or hunting than stuck behind my reloading bench. YMMV :rolleyes: --- SAWMAN
I would not be stuck there. I'd be there because I want to be. I'm finding reloading to be another relaxing thing just like sitting in a tree. Sized and deprimed 100 rounds of 45-70 last night.

Most of my hobbies are out doors. This is something for those bad weather days or just too hot etc...


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FLT

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At my age if I were forced to defend my self it would most likely be at powder burn range. From a strictly pain perspective the powder burn from a 357 sig 125 grain gold dot would hurt damn near as much as the bullet when fired from point blank range.
 

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I can say that my Beretta m9a1 shoots Speer 9mm+p 124gr gold dots exceptionally well. The poi is dead on with my poa. Most factory fmj 124gr don't do as well, so I've worked up several loads to get similar results as the Speer. So far, my best is Hornady XTP 124gr over 5.1gr CFE pistol set to 1.105 col with cci 500 primers. The Hornady XTP rounds are a lot cheaper than the Speer gold dots and give me the same results at the range. I'm sure that they're not moving at the same velocity, but poi mimics poa like the factory Speer rounds do at a fraction of the price. Could I get the same results with fmj bullets? Probably. But if I'd feel confident keeping a couple of mags of factory with the XTP reloads as backup in a shtf situation.
As for a jury, who knows.

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3 men & a boat

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I knew it was coming...LOL.

I really got a good laugh out of the "deliberately more deadly" part. We're talking about hand loading commercial projectiles readily available to the public, not crafting projectiles, drilling holes in them, and then filling them with monkey poop.
I just want that custom drilled monkey poop load data if you don’t mind?
Thank you


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FrommerStop

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I loading my ammo not to be deadly since the in word with me is to most effective in stopping threats. If the low life dies from my most effective ammo, if I must let 12 good citizens of SRC figure it out.
I just ordered the below for my AR pistol-110 grain V-max 30 cal from hornady. I want to find a load that in a 7.5" will about 2000 in short barrel. Just saw a video where this works well at that speed at


1586461299875.png
 

JWlineman

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I knew it was coming...LOL.

I really got a good laugh out of the "deliberately more deadly" part. We're talking about hand loading commercial projectiles readily available to the public, not crafting projectiles, drilling holes in them, and then filling them with monkey poop.
This made me LOL. But on a serious note, does the particular monkey poop differ from pistol to rifle reloads or is there a general species that's best?:p
 

Telum Pisces

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Thanks everyone. I don't care what would happen if I shot someone with a reload. I was just curious where people were getting their load data or just working from the comparable round in their book and working it up?

I'll be reloading mostly rifle rounds. But I'd like to reload 45 ACP and 38 special if I had to pick two of my pistol rounds to reload for. I may eventually head down the 9mm path. But that's only if I want to mess around with loads for fun. Saving money and shooting more is the bottom line for me and reloading. Plus, I do get a satisfaction from loading a round that I hunt with!
 

Jevaughn

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It's kinda Zen for me. I reload 9mm mostly, but when things settle down with this covid-19 crap and I'm back at work so I can buy glass for my .308, I'll be working up a load for it. I did a lot of reloading growing up, but haven't touched it in 25 years until recently.

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