S&W model 586/686 no dash or -1 no M question

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    Does anyone have any experience firing .357 mag ammo through one of these models that has not been sent back to the factory for the repair and M stamp? If so, please share what type .357 ammo, number of rounds fired in the weapon and whether the firing pin issue caused a malfunction. I read where .38 spec cycles just fine. I have a chance to pick up a pristine 586 no dash no M at a great price but I am not crazy about sending it back to Smith (assuming they still do the warranty work for the “kinda, sorta, not quite a full recall issue” in these no dash, -1 guns)
    Thanks
     

    M118LR

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    I've got plenty of experience firing .357 rounds out of the L-Frame prior to it being set to S&W for the Mod. It was Dad's experience on Duty that caused S&W to due the mod. Round count isn't part of the equation. It just takes one Hot 158 grain round to cause the failure, and it can be catastrophic if it happens at the worst time. My opinion, get it done or regulate the revolver to one way range ONLY USE. IT AIN'T WORTH YOUR LIFE! JMHO. YMMV.
     

    M118LR

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    Thank you. Your advice is well taken! BTW- when was your mod done and how was the experience? Any hiccups?
    Dad had the experience years before the mod was authorized. Good thing he had a little H-H experience in Korea before he had to use it on The Street in Chicago since his Duty Sidearm Failed. Hope that answered your question satisfactorily?
     
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    Almost- did you send it off for the mod or did your pops do it before you got it? When was is it done and were there any issues such taking too long, etc? Thanks
     

    M118LR

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    Almost- did you send it off for the mod or did your pops do it before you got it? When was is it done and were there any issues such taking too long, etc? Thanks
    The revolver sat idle after the IA Review until S&W offered the first free modification notice to LE. I was overseas when Dad sent it in with all the other CPD Officers that chose to be so equipped. Since it's return from S&W it has been riding the pine everywhere but on the one way target range. Repair & return time was not relevant since the revolver could not be relied upon in Service. That was decades, centuries, and millennia ago. Probably over 40 years ago by now? Even if I had the answers from way back when, I doubt they would be of any use currently?
     

    M118LR

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    Probably not. Some deep dive stuff that I’ve read on the topic says the problem was because of the lower weight bullets with higher pressures that LE was using. But who knows?
    Here is the notice: https://www.firearmsid.com/recalls/fa_recalls 5.htm The problem was that the cylinder wouldn't rotate due to the primer to hammer pin space when discharging Department Authorized 158 grain .38+ P (actually Hot .357 Mag loads) but the Public Affairs Office never listed a .357 Mag load back in those days. Back then the firing pin was part of the Hammer, S&W wasn't using the ladder bar system currently in use. Folks that carried Colts back in those days carried them with the Hammer/Firing Pin on an empty chamber to preclude an accidental discharge if dropped or knocked to the pavement. S&W supposedly had that cured back before the end of WWII except in this case. Since the revolver has never been back in-service since the incident, I can't give any first hand experience as to if the modification fixed all the problems that LEO actually encountered. But the Semiautomatic S&W 39/59 9 mm and eventually the S&W 645 .45 ACP rapidly replaced the wheelguns of that era. At least until the FBI came up with egg on their face in South Florida. As they say the rest is History. Since Dad & I shared time & effort together together training with that particular revolver it will always be my sentimental favorite, but it's days spent on other than the one way target range are long over, modification or not. Without the modification, use at your own risk!!!! YMMV. Even a sidearm that may fail is better than being unarmed! At least it's available to Pistol Whip a Perp?
     

    M118LR

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    Thank you for taking the time to post that.
    Your Welcome, but we do have a like button that also says Thank You. JMHO. Yet the truth I have passed along to you has stirred many a controversy online! Like Eeyore, Thanks for listening.
     

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    I have learned any machine can break. Knowing how they work is best when you have to repair one in a hurry. I had a perfectly fine colt trooper lock up tight when a squib Speer gold dot 158 gr. Hollow point went out of the case just far enough to lock the cylinder up revolver was worthless until I got a rod tapped the bullet back in case so I could open cylinder. When that happened I thought if I had been in a gunfight very bad. Doing your best to make sure your equipment is in top working order is the best you can do.
     

    M118LR

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    I have learned any machine can break. Knowing how they work is best when you have to repair one in a hurry. I had a perfectly fine colt trooper lock up tight when a squib Speer gold dot 158 gr. Hollow point went out of the case just far enough to lock the cylinder up revolver was worthless until I got a rod tapped the bullet back in case so I could open cylinder. When that happened I thought if I had been in a gunfight very bad. Doing your best to make sure your equipment is in top working order is the best you can do.
    It's what you do once your firearm has failed that determines your fate. Would you take a firearm on Duty that has failed once on the one way range? Sidearms can get expensive, but if you're alive you can earn more Republic Credits Tommarrow. Dogs that chase cars and Pro Golfers actually putting for pars don't last long. JMHO.
     

    ABlaster

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    My personal opinion and experience is that anyone who says their weapon has never failed probably hasn’t shot it much.

    Never is a strong word. One day a magazine will go out of spec. I’ve seen name-brand factory ammo have a bad primer. I’ve personally had a disconnector break in half on an AR platform. I’ve cracked maybe six slides on handguns (four 1911s and two Glocks). Crap happens.

    Keep your PMCS up and don’t hang on to worn out stuff just for emotional or even budgetary reasons, but the idea of not carrying something because of a single failure seems more of a hill to die on in forums than a reasonable practice in reality.

    That being said, if something fails and the cause is not able to be determined then it is time to realize you shouldn’t bet your life on it. Get it fixed, test it (in a legit way), and carry on.
     

    boatbum101

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    All that started with the first models & the hot Federal 357B 125gr JHP load . Some had primer flow issues where primer would swell into & between firing pin & firing pin bushing locking the gun up . Factory recall , new bushing design & retro-fitted ones got the M stamp . Later models had no such problem .
    FWIW I've had both 686 & 586 -0 or no dash without M modification . Neither were LE weapons & both were fired with hot 125gr ammo . Majority of loads fired in both however have been cast loads with either 2400 or W296 powder . I've never had a problem but then again I don't use them for CCW / HD . If you've ever shot a 357 in an enclosed space without hearing protection you'll understand .
     

    DETROIT

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    Does anyone have any experience firing .357 mag ammo through one of these models that has not been sent back to the factory for the repair and M stamp? If so, please share what type .357 ammo, number of rounds fired in the weapon and whether the firing pin issue caused a malfunction. I read where .38 spec cycles just fine. I have a chance to pick up a pristine 586 no dash no M at a great price but I am not crazy about sending it back to Smith (assuming they still do the warranty work for the “kinda, sorta, not quite a full recall issue” in these no dash, -1 guns)
    Thanks

    Smith and Wesson had it right back in the day. One ammunition manufacturer was using a faster burning powder creating over pressure and causing the primers to blow out. The primer would get stuck in the firing pin bushing. Smith and Wesson did not want their revolver to be labeled as problematic and made adjustments to the bushing.
    long story shortened, production stop on that ammo and you have nothing to worry about newer production ammo. But I would avoid reloads or magnum ammo from that time frame in the 80’s


     
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    DETROIT

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    Here is the notice: https://www.firearmsid.com/recalls/fa_recalls 5.htm The problem was that the cylinder wouldn't rotate due to the primer to hammer pin space when discharging Department Authorized 158 grain .38+ P (actually Hot .357 Mag loads) but the Public Affairs Office never listed a .357 Mag load back in those days. Back then the firing pin was part of the Hammer, S&W wasn't using the ladder bar system currently in use. Folks that carried Colts back in those days carried them with the Hammer/Firing Pin on an empty chamber to preclude an accidental discharge if dropped or knocked to the pavement. S&W supposedly had that cured back before the end of WWII except in this case. Since the revolver has never been back in-service since the incident, I can't give any first hand experience as to if the modification fixed all the problems that LEO actually encountered. But the Semiautomatic S&W 39/59 9 mm and eventually the S&W 645 .45 ACP rapidly replaced the wheelguns of that era. At least until the FBI came up with egg on their face in South Florida. As they say the rest is History. Since Dad & I shared time & effort together together training with that particular revolver it will always be my sentimental favorite, but it's days spent on other than the one way target range are long over, modification or not. Without the modification, use at your own risk!!!! YMMV. Even a sidearm that may fail is better than being unarmed! At least it's available to Pistol Whip a Perp?
    I believe Colts safety lever came in around 1969 with the trooper.

    On the L frame, The distance between the firing pin and primer was never an issue. One of the funniest statements in that letter from S&W, they tell you that the FP bushing is safe to use in your j,k and N frame. The FBI testing of the L frame ran 20,000 357 magnums without issue.
     

    M118LR

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    Perhaps there are reasons why wheelguns no longer hold the catbird seat with folks that walk the beat? Contact S&W and find out what they can do for you currently. It's beyond obvious that the problem exists or S&W wouldn't have issued the recall. It isn't prudent to place your life, or another's, on a known defective product that the manufacturer has recalled. I wouldn't drive a vehicle that has been recalled for a fatal defect without having it fixed as a minimum, and I wouldn't race it at Daytona after it proved to have a fatal defect.YMMV.
     

    M118LR

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    Colts hammer block dates back to the Army Special , predessessor of the Official Police , Trooper , Python & all other E & I frame Colts .
    Colt, ain't that a Historical 1911 THING? Or did Singer Sewing Machines and Rand Typewriters end that era? Do my eyes deceive me, or are the Boys in Blue lining up at the Glock Counter? S&W-Colt can barely compete with Serbian/Croation made Springfield's Nowadays. While I did purchase the Gun of the Year Winning S&W Model 69 L-Frame 5 shot .44 Mag, it doesn't have much in common with the Old L-Frames we are discussing. JMHO. https://www.americanrifleman.org/content/remington-typewriters-m1911s-and-the-rand-co/
     

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