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How many Revolvers does it take before you have to admit your Old?

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  • ChrisC

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    But what about releasing the crane with your left hand, pushing it out with the same grip, and utilizing your more skilled dominant Right hand to manipulate the speed loader? Yes you shall need to regrip your revolver prior to firing the next six rounds, but which is actually fractions of a second faster?

    Its a wash. The answer is whichever method you practice with is the one thats faster. Im a right hand loader guy. I want to have control of the cylinder with my support hand when loading. Works great when running and reloading. What works good during shooting static at the range might not work so well when movement is involved.
     

    M118LR

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    Its a wash. The answer is whichever method you practice with is the one thats faster. Im a right hand loader guy. I want to have control of the cylinder with my support hand when loading. Works great when running and reloading. What works good during shooting static at the range might not work so well when movement is involved.

    Now I'm going to draw attention to your left hand striking the extraction lever. Notice that you can't begin to reach for your speedloader until you have cleared the cylinder of all the expended cartridges. Whichever method you have practiced running & gunning or on the KD Range you shall be faster at, acknowledged. But have you ever practiced the crane operated method running & gunning? Are you sure you wouldn't be faster had you ever attempted the other method??????
     

    ChrisC

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    I think I have tried all methods before settling to my preferred one. under a shot timer. What I found was am consistently faster. But YMMV.
     

    M118LR

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    I think I have tried all methods before settling to my preferred one. under a shot timer. What I found was am consistently faster. But YMMV.

    I shall bow to your experience.
    Yet the only crane activated revolver that I know of is the Dan Wesson. So I'm going to assume that you have used one while under a shot timer? and found it to be wanting! Yet I have found that a shot timer isn't as stressful as a "Street Action" but perhaps that is just my experience? Probably not relevant in this scenario?
     

    ChrisC

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    I shall bow to your experience.
    Yet the only crane activated revolver that I know of is the Dan Wesson. So I'm going to assume that you have used one while under a shot timer? and found it to be wanting! Yet I have found that a shot timer isn't as stressful as a "Street Action" but perhaps that is just my experience? Probably not relevant in this scenario?

    which is why I prefer this method, support thumb operates the latch and the rest is the same motion. right hand works the speedloader. I think you have it mixed up. since your post asks about which method is faster, the only tool I can think of that can measure that is a shot timer. if you are asking about "street action", I'm afraid I'm not qualified to answer that.
     

    wildrider666

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    There's obviously a age/training gap from old methods to those used in the last few decades. The whipping the cyclinder is not as positive as physical manipulation and the free to spin cyclinder can delay the reload: you press the speed loader against it slightly out of allignment, turn it you turn the cyclinder unless you remove contact and try again. You have to LOOK for a freewheeling cyclinder: doesn't work in pitch black. Retaining the shooting grip is old and not as solid as the strong hand loading.

    If below condensed version needs illustration I can photo a decades old Instructors manual.
    Right hand shooters: Slap revolver into support hand with cyc release pushed: two middle fingers push cyc open and HELD IN PLACE between fingers (through frame) and thumb. Turn muzzle up and slap ejector rod (force and gravity prevent hangups and under Star jams. Muzzle down as speed loader (or Loose Rounds to be Indexed) is drawn by grip hand. Cylinder is locked by support grip, insert ; twist or push to release cartridges then sweep away the device. Thumb closes cyclinder or aligns indexed rounds (if less than a full load) so hot cartridge will rotate (CW or CCW) to firing position on next trigger pull. Grip, point shoot. Southpaws use same method except the Support hand Thumb pushes and follows the cyclinder through the frame.

    DW revolver shooter can use the same basics above except the Suppot hand thumbs the Crane located Latch down. Southpaws use the Support hand Index finger to release the Latch. thumb and fingers still secure cyclinder and close/index it. I bought a DW when they first came out, kept it for 10 years. Great Glossy Deep Blue finish, until you "chip" a chunk off.

    Speed is simply a matter of practice and increasing proficency. So many things can go wrong with other methods which can leave you with a dead revolver, hope that's all.
     
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    M118LR

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    All training/competitions are designed to emulate actual conditions afield. Yet they are only used to ingrain actions/reactions so that during actual situations muscle memory can be of assistance. Now the last time I can remember being issued a Duty Revolver was the S&W M&P .38 Special. Back in the 70's that's what Uncle Sam gave NAC's to defended themselves with. 5 rounds in the 6 round cylinder & six more rounds on a small leather bandolero held to the SV via a lanyard. (even in the 70's Our Navy clung to 1944 revolver Dogma) So "Street Action" for a revolver today isn't really relevant. High/Mid Cap mag fed semi-automatics replaced revolvers in the last Century/Millenia for "Street Use".

    But there are competitions and training courses for the sporting use of revolvers even today. While I do still use revolvers for hunters pistol/bullseye competitions, which aid in training for hunting actions afield. I can't even remember the last time I was on the clock in a speed shooting drill or competition without a semi-automatic in hand. Perhaps if I'd taken interest in the "Cowboy" events I'd be out practicing a Quick Draw with a Single Action Army, but those are sporting events.

    That's kind of why I asked how many revolvers does it take before you have to admit your Old? I mean even the Military & Law Enforcement still use bolt action rifles on a daily basis. Yet the beloved revolver seems to be on the pine gathering dust in forgotten small arms lockers. Tragedy! JMHO.

    But since I alluded to the 5 rounds in a 6 round cylinder, that was one of the Ivers Johnsons claims to fame. Way, way, back when revolvers had hammer mounted firing pins it wasn't safe to carry with the hammer down on a loaded chamber. The I.J. is equipped with a ladder bar so it became a strong sales point. Sometime during WWII a Navy guy managed to drop & accidentally discharge his Government S&W revolver so S&W went about solving that problem supposedly. Then came the notorious .357 Mag L-Frame that seemed to become trouble cycling when used with hot LEO rounds. At first the sidearm wouldn't cycle/fire and then numerous cases of that same "Dead Revolver" would accidentally discharge when dropped to the pavement. Thus the need for S&W to modify and add an "M" prior to the serial number on the Hammer mounted firing pin S&W L-Frame Model if pictured. Now that's some Old Revolver conversation?????

    PS No matter how many times I reread this all 3 of US are describing the same method of reloading a revolver. None of us are advocating retaining the right hand grip on the revolver throughout reloading as was the case prior to and in the early years of speedloaders. Just my observation.

     
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    wildrider666

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    I've seen the very old ad with the infant holding the revolver: So safe, no worries type marketing plug.
    Also had to put up with and enforce the Empty Chamber B.S. inside the "Wire" and what the Corps call Interior Guard (not MPs) Shotguns for Posts and 1911s for Cpl/Sgt of the Guard, sometimes the Officer of the Day and Brig/Chasers.

    Revolver reloading is pretty cheap, Snap caps or dummys if you reload (glue those tiny mechanical pencil erasers into primer pocket and trim flush). "Slap" them out over a towel makes for quick pickup. Its just a matter of wanting to do it, like everything else. In the grand scheme of things, we shouldn't ignore our bolt gun and shotgun skills because the AR/AK is the primary? So don't ignore your revolver either.
     
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    M118LR

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    I've seen the very old add with the infant holding the revolver: So safe, no worries type marketing plug.
    Also had to put up with and enforce the Empty Chamber B.S. inside the "Wire" and what the Corps call Interior Guard (not MPs) Shotguns for Posts and 1911s for Cpl/Sgt of the Guard, sometimes the Officer of the Day and Brig/Chasers.

    Revolver reloading is pretty cheap, Snap caps or dummys if you reload (glue those tiny mechanical pencil erasers into primer pocket and trim flush). "Slap" them out over a towel makes for quick pickup. Its just a matter of wanting to do it, like everything else. In the grand scheme of thing, we shouldn't ignore our bolt gun and shotgun skills because the AR/AK is the primary?
    Oh you are going to force me to recount tales of woe and inadequacies revolver related.

    So I've previously mentioned that while serving on my only tour of shore duty (Recruiting Gary Indiana) I carried a 4 inch Charter Arms .44 Target Bulldog 19 oz. Was still a Single Sailor in those days but I had a crush on a skinny farm girl that was sharing my home at that time. Well on the way home she stopped to pick up her cigarettes. Once I entered as was force of habit I began to clear the rooms on my way back to the bedroom. (Ever seen AH's Psycho) Nobody hides behind the half drawn curtains in the shower! .......
    Clearing the bathroom, in the time it takes to flip the then modern touch top touch bottom square light switches: ........
    Ever heard the sound that metal shower curtain rings make when drawn during a shower?
    Well, I heard the sound of those shower rings moving during the darkness between turning on and off the touch light switch. Needless to say there wasn't a shot clock on me, but before the light could come back on I withdrew & fired that Bulldog from under a Navy Crackerjack Uniform and placed a chest high round into the original opening of that half drawn shower curtain. Imagine my surprise when the light came on and the area in question was still clear???
    Upon further inspection a towel hung over the shower pole had picked that moment to fall, in the darkness I'd only managed to place a round squarely into the top (last to fall) 1/4 of that towel laying in the tub. A stick on washcloth holder covered the entry point in the tile, and I had to repair two sections of siding on the outside. Somewhere down the highway someone may have found that malformed 265 Grain Hornady Projectile?
    Hence the Spouse labeled that particular revolver "Towel Killer" until this very day. Even though I parted ways with that revolver when leaving Indiana with a Spouse in tow.
    Oh the shame. Not as surprising as the lights coming back on and nothing being inside the kill zone. Perhaps my quickest draw & accurate fire? Damn, not a single shot clock around..........
    Nowadays I can Laugh, back then the adrenaline surge left me shaking. ("Street Action?)
     

    skyydiver

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    No rail on a revo for a light to ID your target before you shoot. Another pitfall lol.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     

    M118LR

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    No rail on a revo for a light to ID your target before you shoot. Another pitfall lol.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Perhaps the round had left the barrel before the light on the rail could even have been activated? I knew I alone was supposed to be at Home!
    But yes, another revolver shortcoming unless the underlug of an L-Frame had been milled to accommodate a light?
     

    M118LR

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    skyydiver I owe you a special Thank You. Upon reflection I can not ever recall awaiting to find the front sight during a life or death situation. Point the sidearm towards center of mass, it's only during the follow up (head shot) that I can recall searching for the front sight. Not sure if that's proper procedure? But it has been effective!
     

    wildrider666

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    Distance and incoming rounds often default to unsighted fire, both eyes wide open! Lol. Revolvers have that gap between the cylinder and the forcing cone is unforgiving to flesh in its path. That would limit the light function. A remote switch could be used but switch placement that's compatable with single and two hand grip is a problem. Mfrs haven't put much effort toward a fix as we just use the various light/handgun techniques. Old: I recall using those old silver bodied (Eveready?) flashlights with the "D cell" body and larger four inch lens. The military 90°angled body had some drawbacks for handgun use compatibility but Tunnel Rats used them well.

     
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    G-rat

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    I need to get a lever gun in .357mag to go with my VERY well worn S&W 586 4"... I'm down to only 7 revolvers these days.
     

    M118LR

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    Distance and incoming rounds often default to unsighted fire, both eyes wide open! Lol. Revolvers have that gap between the cylinder and the forcing cone is unforgiving to flesh in its path. That would limit the light function. A remote switch could be used but switch placement that's compatable with single and two gand grip is a problem. Mfrs haven't put much effort toward a fix as we just use the various light/handgun techniques. Old: I recall using those old silver bodied (Eveready?) flashlights with the "D cell" body and larger four inch lens. The military 90°angled body had some drawbacks for handgun use compatibility but Tunnel Rats used them well.

    Here is a read which explains in more detail what wildrider666 and I are ping-ponging about. Military dogma (ie the Gunny on the kd range) demands sighted fire for every round sent downrange. Just like wildrider666 stated in actual combat your going to met up with 2 eyes wide open shooting.


    Perhaps it's time to rethink "In a fight, front sight"?
    Now if your the aggressor (since man is an ambush hunter) all those Old Skool teachings have been proven over time. But when the shoe is on the other foot, well.............
     
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    Molon Labe

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    Distance and incoming rounds often default to unsighted fire, both eyes wide open! Lol. Revolvers have that gap between the cylinder and the forcing cone is unforgiving to flesh in its path. That would limit the light function. A remote switch could be used but switch placement that's compatable with single and two gand grip is a problem. Mfrs haven't put much effort toward a fix as we just use the various light/handgun techniques. Old: I recall using those old silver bodied (Eveready?) flashlights with the "D cell" body and larger four inch lens. The military 90°angled body had some drawbacks for handgun use compatibility but Tunnel Rats used them well.

    A silver bodied 3 "D cell" Ray-o-Vac Sportsman with a 3" lens replaced with thin plexiglass from being dropped on the pavement very often. I found my old light while rummaging thru some old stuff a while back. Standard LEO issue in the '60's before the aluminum and rechargeable LEDs were the norm. Night revolver training involved holding the light in your weak hand 90 degrees from your body and firing single handed. The premise was the opponent would fire at the light. I don't think I could do this anymore. A little Brasso and a soft rag had my trophy on my shelf.....what stories it could tell.
     

    M118LR

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    wildrider666 how many others have called you a "Nudge" ?

    How long are we going to allow this night vision destroying ruse to run its course.

    Even the Government Angle Flashlight contained a Red Lens which gave you a chance to preserve your night vision should you have to engage in a low or no light scenario?

    Green china markers show up black while under a red light in the darkness, so why do we shut one eye when facing tracers or light sources during a low/no light engagement? How about that 3 on a match wives tale during WWI & WWII. If you want to operate in the dark utilize night vision glasses/scopes, IR, or complete thermal tech. A white light flashlight no matter the angle of attack is your worst option. JMHO. Why do we have tritium sights on revolvers/pistols nowadays? Preplanned failures have a tendency to reach the light of day during after action debriefs. Remember to aim a little lower in the dark, you will raise the front sight in the dark naturally attempting to even it with the rear sight using irons. That's why Military rifles have Day/Night Apertures. Perhaps I'm not a follower of the sidearm mounted white light???????????
    How long after you activate your white light will it take you to be able to distinguish shadow people in the darkness?????????

    It didn't work well for the three blind mice.............................................

    If you need a light, make sure its equipped with a minimum of a red lens. JMHO.

    Guess what happens to your glow in the dark green tritium night sights when you activate a red lens rail mounted light? Can you see your green glow it the dark sights once you ignite a white light? Test your technology while safely training under field conditions prior to relying upon it under actual Combat-Street Conditions. JMHO.
     
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    Midnight son

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    Selection that went to the range today. Wonderful not to be on my knees picking up brass. Too answer the question......at least 50 years old. Unless you are extremely wise for your age.
    5749CB0E-C9DB-484F-92C2-120FA8F017F1.jpeg
     

    M118LR

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    Got to admit that Y'all are pushing my Wesson button. Only thing Prettier than a Shiney Model 29 with goncalo alves grips is a Dan Wesson .44 Mag with zebra wood grips. JMHO.

    .357 Mag affectionados might drool over the slippery smoothness of the early hand assembled Colt Pythons, but when it comes to pure pretty Nothing compares to a Wesson. JMHO.

    PS:
    Today I received a message that I may be getting OLD!
    Active Duty Youngman with his spouse & 3 children came into work and noticed the NAC Wings on my necklace. "Did you used to be an Aircrewman? P8 or Helo? He asked politely.
    So I referenced the fixed wing & rotary wing aircraft I had crewed, to which he honestly stated that he had took the children to Patriots Park on NAS JAX to view those "Old School" Aircraft on static display.
    When I mentioned that I had been sent to Argentina to retrieve the PBY that now stands as a static display, he let out that he wished he'd been alive back then to have such an opportunity.
    Perhaps that's the signal that I may be getting up in years?
    As for gunporn!
    sw29n  12.jpg
    4 revolvers.jpg

    Notice the Zebra Wood grips with the D sticker on the top left Dan Wesson. Even prettier than the S&W grips. JMHO.

    Just because pachmayer made for a better utility grip, don't make them pretty! JMHO.
     
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