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German Walther PPK/S vs S&W

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  • M118LR

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    So the first generation of the German made Walther PPK/S is on the shelf.
    Is it any better than the S&W built PPK/S?
    Is it worth the expanded price point of the German built vice S&W built PPK/S?

    Thanks for your opinion/experiences.
     

    MAXman

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    If you mean the new production ppk’s, they are in fact not made in Germany but instead made in Arkansas. From what I understand they are made to the SW specs, IE feedramp and beaver tail etc. having never shot either, idk which is better.

    If you mean a west German import, then condition would count for a lot when looking at price on a 30 year old used gun. I’ve had a 32 pp and 380 ppk/s. Both were good guns but I sold each for more than I bought them for Due to my dislike of blue finish on carry guns

    as far as worth the price, I have an interarms stainless 32 and a nickel manurhin 380 that are both excellent guns and the combined price put them under a new production ppk/s.
     

    George G

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    For future value, the German guns will always be worth more, in comparable condition. That being said, the new guns are more user friendly. For a carry gun, get something more replaceable. Always remember that if you have to use it, it may spend months to years in a police evidence locker. I wouldn't carry a family heirloom.
     

    M118LR

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    .

    So this began when a co-worker asked me what CCW sidearm I'd recommend. My first question was what his & his spouses experience level was. Answer: .38 Special Revolver. Neither competently handled full size .357 revolvers or full size .45 acp. I've never encountered anyone that didn't survive an actual REAL WORLD situation with the diminutive Walther PPK/S in 380 ACP/9mm Kurz.

    I've explained that while SS has a bit of a glint problem, human sweat more than makes a SS pistol worthwhile in a daily CCW situation. I even mentioned that when I carried the PPK/S daily I found it prudent to have a tritium tube installed in the front sight. Bad things happening have a higher probability of happening after sunset. (JMHO)

    Now when it comes to my own personal experience, the S&W crafted PPK/S meet or exceeded all the Walthers built in Germany. But they all had more modern manufacturing techniques and materials.
     
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    MAXman

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    understand I have a stainless interarms model I carry when ultimate discretion is warranted,

    I would never recommend a walther pp series, especially in 380, to someone inexperienced with handguns. The list of quirks and hurdles to overcome when compared to a modern shield or even an old p232 sig far outweighs whatever slight size difference or cool factor exists. I love the little things, just like I love airweight centennials, but neither are a good weapons for the novice IMO.
     

    M118LR

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    Please advise as to the dificeis of a snub nosed .38 special vs a 380 ACP Walther PPK/S semi automatic pistol?

    As to the experience factor, my credentials are impeccable I assure you.
     

    MAXman

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    Oh, I thought this was for your coworker friend who can’t handle a full-size handgun not in 38 special.

    personally, a fastback or camelback snub beats a ppk for pocket carry due to the snag free design, and less exposed parts for lint-n-shit to get into. For anything else, the walther has a less painful recoil, more bangs and faster reloads. Ive also found it susceptible to limp wrist failures, they’re very mag sensitive to the point they don’t like mec Gars, ammo sensitive, the double action is heavy/gritty/stagy. (In fact the only“good” trigger ive felt on a blowback walther was a pp in 32, and the only one with a tactile reset was a 380 ppk/s. Both were west German.) people with big hands get hammer bite(I’ve never experienced it).
    Parts replacement can be fun. I had the hammer release lever on my manurhin suddenly develope a bur that made the safety hard to engage. Some research revealed that there is a number of slightly different shaped levers with a alphabetic code, and depending on the tolerances of the frame and other parts dictates which lettered release you install. Further research on disassembling the weapon revealed that many of the pins are actually dog bones, so simply hammering them out can crack parts(including the frame). Now, I don’t know how much of that applies to the new production pieces, which are for now covered under a life time warranty, but over on walther forums guys are talking about trigger pins that can be pushed out with a fingernail. I do know a problem discussed over there with the smith and wesson Guns were frames so out of spec mags would eject themselves when trying to chamber a round, and that walther is currently making them to the smith specs. I’d strongly suggest thoroughly going over any piece before actually handing over money, especially with the price tag on a new one.

    I absolutely love the little guns, especially in 32. Despite the controls being in the wrong places(or non existent), the crap trigger and impossible small grip i shoot them better than almost any other semi auto. They work great for me, but they don’t work for a lot of people. And 700 is a lot to plop down on something that draws blood, won’t make it through a entire mag, or shoots itself loose. I drank the double action, pin the hammer kool aid a long time ago so in a world of plastic strikers I’ve limited my options. Maybe you’re in a similar boat, which if you are, I found the sig p232 to be a better weapon in every regard except magazine availability. The East German makarov was also imo a better gun, and the double action on it was actually smoother and lighter than the sigs. I settled on the beretta 85 to throw 380’s because all the controls are where they should be, and it’s accurate enough. They’re all bigger though, and I don’t shoot any as well as the walther. I thoroughly enjoy them. But for anyone else it doesn’t do anything a shield/Glock 42/p365/pps doesn’t do, except cost more and have a hammer.

    Edit to add: it sounds like this is for you, and you’ve had them before and know what you’re getting into. If you get a new one, please report back on how she’s made and shoots. I’ve talked myself out of one a couple weeks ago,
     
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    M118LR

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    Oh, I thought this was for your coworker friend who can’t handle a full-size handgun not in 38 special.

    personally, a fastback or camelback snub beats a ppk for pocket carry due to the snag free design, and less exposed parts for lint-n-shit to get into. For anything else, the walther has a less painful recoil, more bangs and faster reloads. Ive also found it susceptible to limp wrist failures, they’re very mag sensitive to the point they don’t like mec Gars, ammo sensitive, the double action is heavy/gritty/stagy. (In fact the only“good” trigger ive felt on a blowback walther was a pp in 32, and the only one with a tactile reset was a 380 ppk/s. Both were west German.) people with big hands get hammer bite(I’ve never experienced it).
    Parts replacement can be fun. I had the hammer release lever on my manurhin suddenly develope a bur that made the safety hard to engage. Some research revealed that there is a number of slightly different shaped levers with a alphabetic code, and depending on the tolerances of the frame and other parts dictates which lettered release you install. Further research on disassembling the weapon revealed that many of the pins are actually dog bones, so simply hammering them out can crack parts(including the frame). Now, I don’t know how much of that applies to the new production pieces, which are for now covered under a life time warranty, but over on walther forums guys are talking about trigger pins that can be pushed out with a fingernail. I do know a problem discussed over there with the smith and wesson Guns were frames so out of spec mags would eject themselves when trying to chamber a round, and that walther is currently making them to the smith specs. I’d strongly suggest thoroughly going over any piece before actually handing over money, especially with the price tag on a new one.

    I absolutely love the little guns, especially in 32. Despite the controls being in the wrong places(or non existent), the crap trigger and impossible small grip i shoot them better than almost any other semi auto. They work great for me, but they don’t work for a lot of people. And 700 is a lot to plop down on something that draws blood, won’t make it through a entire mag, or shoots itself loose. I drank the double action, pin the hammer kool aid a long time ago so in a world of plastic strikers I’ve limited my options. Maybe you’re in a similar boat, which if you are, I found the sig p232 to be a better weapon in every regard except magazine availability. The East German makarov was also imo a better gun, and the double action on it was actually smoother and lighter than the sigs. I settled on the beretta 85 to throw 380’s because all the controls are where they should be, and it’s accurate enough. They’re all bigger though, and I don’t shoot any as well as the walther. I thoroughly enjoy them. But for anyone else it doesn’t do anything a shield/Glock 42/p365/pps doesn’t do, except cost more and have a hammer.

    Edit to add: it sounds like this is for you, and you’ve had them before and know what you’re getting into. If you get a new one, please report back on how she’s made and shoots. I’ve talked myself out of one a couple weeks ago,

    Since I've hit civilian life calibers below .44 no longer interest me. My favorite CCW Revolver was a 19 oz 5 round four inch Charter Arms Target Bulldog .44 special with hot handloads. Yet I still have a lot of confidence in the .45 ACP. Everyone has a favorite, I've got a soft spot for the M1951 Beretta Brigadier & the 1911. (but that is just me.)

    Now when it comes to the price point on a firearm that may be called upon to save your spouses or your life, well perhaps a couple extra $$ signs may not be the driving force.

    With an average of 6 rounds in 3 seconds being the normal for a CCW sidearm perhaps an extra mag or faster reloading is not of significance? But if a firefight of duty belt sidearm is needed, perhaps all small pocket/CCW sidearms may be found wanting?

    Should I determine that another Walther PPK/S is required within the locker, it won't be a Fancy Dan First Generation with wooden grips. Collectable Safe Queens are made to ride the pine, bakelite plastic with an SS finish and a tritium tube in the front sight are more my speed. JMHO.
     

    M118LR

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    So the time has come that we really need to understand a teacher student relationship.

    The sidearms that I choose to use for CCW are heavily influenced by what I've come to understand and have been trained blindfolded with or in pitch darkness. (Papa Smurf) A coworker in the civilian world has never received any actual Military Training or other small arms training, needless to say that He & His Spouse have never been Small Arms Qualifier Trainers.

    But since it sounds like we both cut our teeth on revolvers? Then perhaps we can understand that (Papa Smurf & His Spouse have no other sidearm experience than a 38 special revolver) in a pressure situation a revolvers manual arms shall rule the moment of maximum stress?

    So since Papa Smurf has no other trigger pull experience other than a revolvers DA trigger system, any single action 1911 based system is probably more of a hazard to Himself & His Spouse than they are going to be able to manipulate under extreme stress. (JMHO)

    So if you have an input as to what DA/SA Magazine feed, Decocking Lever Equipped,.38 Special Equivalent, with a chamber loaded indicator and and a redundant safety so Papa Smurf & His Spouse don't perforate thier six during the only actual time in thier lives that they need to perform a "Fast Draw" I'm all ears???????
     

    wildrider666

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    One of many PP/PPK historical events. Bodyguard got one shot off (missed) and it jammed. He got shot but still physically got between attacker and the "Princess", got shot two more times. No mention of attempt to clear his weapons malfunction. Attacker's two revolvers functioned as advertised stopping 3 additional men. The Princesses husband did nothing worthy of mention.

     

    M118LR

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    One of many PP/PPK historical events. Bodyguard got one shot off (missed) and it jammed. He got shot but still physically got between attacker and the "Princess", got shot two more times. No mention of attempt to clear his weapons malfunction. Attacker's two revolvers functioned as advertised stopping 3 additional men. The Princesses husband did nothing worthy of mention.

    Historically there has never been a sidearm that hasn't failed to fire. It is only in the percentage of those sidearms (Lower being better with a higher percentage of them being utilized) that function properly when called upon by those that provided proper maintenance and feeding that caused them to become preferred sidearms to begin with. The tract record of the 1911 outside of Sloppy Military Specifications is horrendous compared to the Walther PPK/S.
     
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    M118LR

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    Since I've just been "Taken to the Carpet" off air by another member, perhaps it's time to just list the facts like on Dragnet?

    One of my Military Documented Collateral Duties (the Navy doesn't recognise Secondary MOS's) was Arm/Ord/Small Arms Qualifier Trainer. That means that I had to sign off on a Military Qualifier (Teacher) before they got to train others. So for those known in Navy Jargon as Uncle Sam's Misguided Children, (Highly Respected Marines) there isn't any recognition for those achieving the Secondary USMC MOS of 8541. So when I state that my credentials are impeccable, it was just part of my job and they are documented in Military Evaluations and backed by multiple DD214"s.

    So here is the bottom line, all this documentation is long past. Today when I ask for your opinion it's more current and relevant than past history. (About past History, try this "Back to Back World War Champions!") I'm not here to impress anyone, todays novice shooter has a better chance of being more in touch with tomorrow's Military Member or Public Servant than I'm ever going to be.

    So please take the time to interrupt my typographical ramblings, and understand that I am Honored to read your responses and opinions. Thank You to the entire Rank & File that have opined.
     
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