Fox urine, marijuana, smell in a court room

[FrommerStop]

True story by Lawdog

This is totally unrelated to the OP, and a hard right turn, but funny enough to be worth sharing.

A colleague in Alaska was representing a guy in a pot growing case. Alaska is filled with basement gardeners. The whole investigation started with a trooper who would literally drive around with his head sticking out of the car like a dog, sniffing for pot. Marijuana has a pretty distinct odor--not just once it has been burned, but even in its live plant stage. And this cop focused his nose on that smell. Trolling along a dirt road outside of Wasilla, he catches the scent coming from a rundown little cabin. The driveway is gated and posted against trespassers. The cop had to walk a hundred yards or so (over private property) to get to the house. Once at the house, he walked around peering through windows and accumulated enough additional evidence to get a warrant. Whether that cop's initial foray onto the property was lawful or not all hinged on the question of whether his initial observations fell within "plain smell." (An interesting variation on plain sight.) The "gardner" who lived there was also a trapper. There were animal traps and furs sitting right out on the front porch. And he maintained that what the cop had smelled was actually fox urine. He brings some fox urine to his defense attorney to demonstrate it, and--sure enough--the lawyer agrees that it smells just like green marijuana. (And this attorney would have been quite familiar with the smell of marijuana.) The lawyer files a motion for an evidentiary hearing, with the plan of attacking the trooper's observations and arguing that the smell he observed was not sufficient to justify trespassing onto this fellows land, because it couldn't truly be distinguished as marijuana. The lawyer goes a step further, though, and decides to pull a little stunt. He sets out a small container of fox urine in the back of the courtroom. His plan is to invite the trooper to move around the courtroom and see if he smells marijuana. Then the great reveal is going to be the fact that it is actually just fox urine. The problem, though, was that he had no concept of what amount to use (trappers use a drop or two) or how to store it. So he uses way too much and in a very open container. Within a minute of placing the container in the back of the courtroom, the stench overwhelms the entire courthouse. It spread through the hallways, under doors, and through the duct work. It went everywhere. The judge was enraged. The clerks wanted to hang him. And that smell hung in the air for a solid week. If you stood near the entrance and watched people walking in, you would see their eyes pop open and their heads snap up as they recognized what they knew to be the smell of marijuana (except that it wasn't) filling the air within the courthouse.

I can't recall whether he won the motion. But I sure do remember that smell.

 

[Zeroed in]

For that matter, the guy could have been burning incense that smells like mj. So I believe the officer trespassed, unless his nose is certified as k9's are.

While in the army years ago, we'd burn mj incense in the day rooms, put in inconspicuous places, on all 3 floors of the barracks. Then wait and watch the MP's swarm the barracks. They'd send the whole mp company it seemed like, and a slew of mpi's searching us and our rooms.
We'd do it a few times a week, usually on the weekends when we were partying, drinking beer and wanting some entertainment fun. Finally after about 30 raids or so, they quit coming. That's when we burned the real stuff. lol

 

[fl57caveman]

there are weeds around here in n.w. florida that have a strong smell almost like skunkweed.


not to mention, skunks splattered on the road

 

[John B.]

If you believe the officer was in the right, you deep throat the boot. Change my mind.

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[John B.]

Not saying I agreed. Personally I don’t care what you smoke. Just pointing out that Plain smell doesn’t require a K9


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I'm not a smoker of anything, and I have no doubt that plain smell probably cause can lead to some pretty good convictions, this just seems like a bit of a stretch to me...

You could walk a K9 through myrtle grove and bust down 100 doors by lunch with this tactic. Lol.

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[FLT]

I wish the powers that be would realize that the war on drugs was lost a long time ago .

 

[FrommerStop]

What I often smell coming off my creek is a sick solvent smell. Perhaps it is someone cooking crystal meth or it could be from some of the distant industries. Relative to crystal meth it is the cookers of it that really frighten me. Also drug labs pollute the environment. On the next street south of my neighborhood, about half a mile as the crow flies, but several miles by car is a very poor place with trailers and such. We once had a pervert from there coming up from the creek bottom to peek in peoples yards. When called the police said they had a good idea of the perp's identity and visits stopped.

 

[Zeroed in]

Plain smell for MJ doesn’t require a K9 according to FL law, just FYI


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I agree if you're on a traffic stop or in very close proximity, but you enter 100+ yds onto posted and fenced land because you "think" you smell mj burning, isn't going to fly in court. In FL, you smelling what you think is mj, is not probable cause, it barely raises to mere suspicion at that distance.
You're best bet would be to file a probable cause affidavit, let your supervisor go over it, and if he's as gullible, send it to your SAA for their determination to issue a warrant. Otherwise, you're leaving yourself and your department open for a civil suit.
Also, burning oak leaves sometimes has the odor of burning mj too.

 

[FrommerStop]

I agree if you're on a traffic stop or in very close proximity, but you enter 100+ yds onto posted and fenced land because you "think" you smell mj burning, isn't going to fly in court. In FL, you smelling what you think is mj, is not probable cause, it barely raises to mere suspicion at that distance.
You're best bet would be to file a probable cause affidavit, let your supervisor go over it, and if he's as gullible, send it to your SAA for their determination to issue a warrant. Otherwise, you're leaving yourself and your department open for a civil suit.
Also, burning oak leaves sometimes has the odor of burning mj too.

A question. If the land is fenced, while on a plain smelling expedition, can watch dogs within in the fenced and signed area be shot by the officer legally. The signs include 'bad dog' signage.

 

[John B.]

Honestly I can't wait until recreational marijuana is legal in Florida, because apparently they put that stuff in gummy bears, and my fat ass loves gummy bears.

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[Zeroed in]

A question. If the land is fenced, while on a plain smelling expedition, can watch dogs within in the fenced and signed area be shot by the officer legally. The signs include 'bad dog' signage.

I guess they can do what they want, but it won't relieve the officers from civil liability. And I have personally seen drug k9's fail to hit on a car, but the handler said the k9 did, and searched anyway. That kind of shit happens all the time.
Also in FL, your property doesn't have to have posted signs if the property is fenced. And just because a popo under the color of blue (meaning in uniform in official status), does not give them the right to break laws to enforce a law, especially something that barely brings up mere "suspicion".

 

[Zeroed in]

Here’s the case law if anyone wants to read it:

FindLaw's Supreme Court of Florida case and opinions.

FindLaw's searchable database of Supreme Court of Florida decisions since

caselaw.findlaw.com

Again, just an FYI, and it’s pretty much out now due to legal hemp and medical cannabis


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Yeah, so? That was a traffic stop Hello. Not a 100 yard smell of something he "thinks" is burning mj.

 

[Viking1204]

Honestly I can't wait until recreational marijuana is legal in Florida, because apparently they put that stuff in gummy bears, and my fat ass loves gummy bears.

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LOL, my fat ass loves gummy bears too, I don't think it will take too much longer to make recreational available in Florida! My company still won't let me do it but I retire in 12 or less years depending on how well my stock market account does!

 

[kidsoncoffee]

I wish the powers that be would realize that the war on drugs was lost a long time ago .

The war was never about drugs. It was about locking up minorities and hippies for small victimless crimes. Here's an article explaining the Nixon administration's reasonings. Nixon aide article...

 

[Rebel_Rider1969]

The war was never about drugs. It was about locking up minorities and hippies for small victimless crimes. Here's an article explaining the Nixon administration's reasonings. Nixon aide article...

No, its about money. The minoritys and hippys just happen to have it AND get caught. The whole thing is a cash cow, just like DUIs.

 

[FrommerStop]