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ERGC Steel Ammo Ban

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  • kidsoncoffee

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    I'm very pleased that y'all decided to allow steel core ammo now. I will be renewing my membership. I was just waiting on the outcome of the decision. I love the gun club and look forward to many more enjoyable days sending lead down range. I'll be bringing my own steel targets, that way there's no fuss. How do you recommend I handle it if another member on the same range starts shooting my steel and I ask them to stop, yet they continue to shoot at it? Should I just get a RSO and have them settle it? I don't want to spend the $200 I'm gonna have invested in it just for someone else to hit it from 5 lanes over. I don't like to get confrontational at the range with other people that are armed. Off the range, I have no issues confronting someone, but on the range, there's loaded weapons involved and I don't want it to turn south quickly.
     

    Raven

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    Maybe they just need to hire a teen to come out there on a Monday or whatever their slowest day is, pay him $50 to pick up any loose brass.
    It's getting ridiculous with at least one RSO about the brass. It's a gun range. There's going to be stray brass. Yes, members should police their brass, but having someone sitting on an ATV pointing to every single piece of brass within 20 feet of your shooting lane and expecting you to pick it up, when obviously it's not yours, is ridiculous. Half the shit he insisted we pick up last time had turned brown or was a completely different caliber than what we shot. It was embarrassing having my 71 year old dad out there as a guest and the RSO telling him "there's a piece by your left foot in the grass. Another under the deck" and watching my dad look at the brass, knowing it's not ours but not wanting to stir up any shit.
    If something doesn't change, I'll not be renewing.

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    Absolutely ridiculous. I'm voting with my wallet and taking my cheap ammo and my whole family elsewhere.
     

    stage20

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    I don't like to get confrontational at the range with other people that are armed. Off the range, I have no issues confronting someone, but on the range, there's loaded weapons involved and I don't want it to turn south quickly.
    You'd be surprised how many people carry loaded weapons off the range. Lol!!!
    I'd much rather get in a confrontation at a range than on the street. People at the range may be way more responsible than someone on the corner.
     

    kidsoncoffee

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    You'd be surprised how many people carry loaded weapons off the range. Lol!!!
    I'd much rather get in a confrontation at a range than on the street. People at the range may be way more responsible than someone on the corner.
    You do have a good point. Either way, I know 100% that at the range they're armed and can become hostile under the wrong conditions. I treat everyone as if they're armed. That's why I try to avoid confrontations at all cost. I feel it's my duty to try and deescalate since I'm carrying.
     

    FrommerStop

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    Another bit of steel case ammo myth is wear and damage to the gun. From brownells
     

    Cstokes91

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    From all the research I have done on brass vs steel, I've came to the following conclusion... steel cases will wear out your extractors @ about 5000 rounds and will cause premature barrel wear. That said, on a normal day, you can easily buy 2-3 barrels and a few extractors on the cost saving between brass and steel (and brass will still wear both your barrel and extractor too).
     

    FrommerStop

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    I'm no expert, but logic makes me believe that steel on steel will cause more wear and tear than brass on steel.

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    If you use the gun without firing it non-stop the barrel will not wear that much. Getting it hot will take rifling out out sooner with steel. The steel is a very mild steel. Fire two case of steel case ammo and the savings over brass will buy you any where from 1-2.5 new barrels. You should get at least 10K rounds and likely more before needing a new barrel.
    I will likely not be putting more than that through a barrel considering how many years I have left.

    Extraction does require more force and IIRC they suggested replacement at 5,000 rounds.
     

    FrommerStop

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    From all the research I have done on brass vs steel, I've came to the following conclusion... steel cases will wear out your extractors @ about 5000 rounds and will cause premature barrel wear. That said, on a normal day, you can easily buy 2-3 barrels and a few extractors on the cost saving between brass and steel (and brass will still wear both your barrel and extractor too).
    What we have mostly been talking about is 5.56 steel case with bimetalic bullets. What I do not know is how much wear does the standard steel 7.62x39 ammunition wear a barrel. I ask because the pressures are significantly lower, usually under 50K PSI,. 5.56 even from wolf is loaded to higher pressures.
    I put together some economy grade uppers to go with a lower that I have. Most bottom rung economy grade uppers come with bare steel, meaning no chrome or nitride coating. By the way the fellow at small arms solutions says that for barrels you want chrome over nitride. He claims the nitride is less expensive. I figure I got easily 5k rounds before anything happens to the barrels.
    A mil spec AK has a chromed lined barrel with the exception for guns made in the former Yugoslavia, in contrast to many USA made ones that do not.
     

    Cstokes91

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    I can't speak for 7.62 AR barrels but for WASRs and milled 7.62 BFLV couldn't wear a barrel out even after nearly 200k rounds from what I remember. That's running them full auto all day every day.

    Worth noting they don't care much for accuracy. Their target is 25 yards out and only pull it if it keyholes. The trunnions on the WASRs would crack and then they'd just rebarrel. They haven't had an imported milled fail yet.

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    FrommerStop

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    I can't speak for 7.62 AR barrels but for WASRs and milled 7.62 BFLV couldn't wear a barrel out even after nearly 200k rounds from what I remember. That's running them full auto all day every day.

    Worth noting they don't care much for accuracy. Their target is 25 yards out and only pull it if it keyholes. The trunnions on the WASRs would crack and then they'd just rebarrel. They haven't had an imported milled fail yet.

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    The stamped Chinese MAK 90's used 1.5 mm sheet metal instead of the soviet 1 mm standard, that is same as a light machine gun based on the AK design. If you crack a front trunion, that needs to be replaced. The barrel might still be useful. I saw the iraqveteran8888 fire as WASR until it walked out of the trunion. It is a pinned press fit that secures such a barrel. They were firing hundreds of rounds full auto non-stop and expansion that was likely unequal for between the gas tube vs the barrel pull the barrel. They managed to get the barrel back on and it still fired.
    The cycle of life of a garand and M14 action IIRC is about 95,000 rnds. The barrel will be gone long before that number is reached.
     

    Fanner50

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    It's a simple matter of voting out these board members who are making these bad decisions. Get involved, attend board meetings, and Vote Them Out!!!
     

    Realtor

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    I was out there for the first time last week, since the Virus closure. Range 1 used to have their steel targets on it, I didnt notice any when I was there....? I take my own steel target, the RSO drove by, didnt say anything? I suppose they are now removed? Also they made a second berm? not sure why, but it's there now, at about 75 yards.
     

    Capt

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    Had another great range day with the wife.Ran 7.62x39 rifle and shot my brand new blue label glock,perfect!! Had the range to our self, life is GOOD!!
     

    kidsoncoffee

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    Got my new steel and target braces in the other day. 2 8" AR500 steel gongs 3/8" thick as well as a wood framed and cardboard sheet to hold my paper targets. Painted the gongs white with a 2" bullseye. Gonna be renewing my membership as soon as my next 2 guns are built and I'm ready to dial them in and it cools down a little bit. It's a pretty sweet modular setup and breaks down easily into a small enough package to probably fit most cars. Cost of the braces, gongs, and j hooks for the gongs was $99. I spent another $30 on the metal conduit that acts as the legs and cross brace. At $10 per 10ft stick it's not too expensive to replace if a shot gets a little high or sideways. I can't wait to ring that steel.
     

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