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ERGC Steel Ammo Ban

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  • Cstokes91

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    Hey guys,

    Just wanted to make anyone aware that is a member / prospective member at ERGC of a new rule that just recently passed - steel core (the vast majority of steel cased ammo) / green tip m855 is no longer allowed.

    I know they had the best of intentions (some members keep shooting the steel plates and pitting them that they setup for members to use) but if this new rule stays that kills a lot of the reasons I go there. I also know that this was a nice addition to their ranges and a lot of members really enjoy using the steel versus only shooting paper.

    I've messaged them and talked to the RSOs and suggested that one of the four rifle ranges have the steel targets removed so that steel core / m855 can be allowed there. Figured I'd post it here as a PSA especially with how hard it is to find ammo right now, sometimes steel is all you can get for a reasonable price.

    At any rate, I'm hoping I don't have to swap ranges but we'll see how this goes and will also post back with their reply.

    EDIT - I feel like this thread is still getting views - if you are reading this now they've removed this rule and now steel ammo is allowed and m855 / other AP rounds are not allowed on their targets.
     
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    Cstokes91

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    Sooooo . . . you can't use M193 becsuse . . . . . ?? ---- SAWMAN

    A decent chunk of my rifles are not ARs (mostly AKs). Not to mention m193 is difficult to find right now anywhere below 50$ / 100 rounds.

    Also, I imagine most people running surplus SKS/Mosins/Makarovs are using surplus cheap steel ammo.
     

    Cstokes91

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    The majority of steel case ammo is not steel core btw, but rather just a bi-metal jacket. Mild steel core ammo has been banned for import for awhile. It’s the M855/SS109 that causes us the most grief.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

    They are also including the bi-metal jacket. They run a magnet on the tip. If it sticks, not allowed from what I understand.
     

    War-Buff

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    M855 is pretty much all I have to shoot in my 5.56 ARs, and ERGC is the only place I have had to shoot it. Is it a total ban or just not allowed on their steel? I don't understand a total ban on it; I just punch paper with mine. So, they put up steel that I don't use, then ban my ammo? That sucks.
     

    Cstokes91

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    M855 is pretty much all I have to shoot in my 5.56 ARs, and ERGC is the only place I have had to shoot it. Is it a total ban or just not allowed on their steel? I don't understand a total ban on it; I just punch paper with mine. So, they put up steel that I don't use, then ban my ammo? That sucks.
    Total ban. They said that people continued to shoot their steel targets with it (intentionally or not) so now they banned it. I was also shooting at my own target stand with paper when the RSO told me about it.

    And yeah, that's exactly how I felt. That was always the really nice thing about ERGC. I can appreciate them wanting to add more features to the range but not when it takes away something else. Also, with picking up your own ammo it's always nice to just run a magnet over all the steel... not to mention running steel through ARs comes out way cheaper and will buy you a few extractors and barrels by the time it is all said and done.
     

    standles

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    It is unfortunate that all suffer because a few have to be aholes. Even when they had mild steel frames out to hang your own targets from aholes would shoot them with regular ammo and hole them. If caught you can do something about it but catching them is the hard part. Also only allowing it on one range is a nightmare to police. If the aholes didn't have enough decency to not shoot up targets they dang sure ain't going to follow range allowed rules. I get it. unfortunately the range had two choices. 1) remove all steel and impact a large segment of membership or 2) restrict the ammo and have minimal impact because everyone can still shoot steel and any gun they want with allowed ammo.
     

    Baddog 0302

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    I have my own targets. That doesn't make a difference though. Their targets are on the range so the ammo is banned.
    Aren't all the ranges 100 (+-) yds. What I meant was Put your own targets down range and you shoot your targets, also add a fungo bat to your range load out for any A-hole that shoots your target w/o your permission.
    3" hole
     

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    stage20

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    I will get clarification at the board meeting tonight. I’d be happy to voice your concerns.


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    One bad apple is all it takes.
    Maybe ban the people that are shooting steel on the targets?
    Another option would be a deposit for shooting the steel. I would have no problem leaving a deposit and plinking brass at them. You shoot steel, you lose your deposit and get a ban. A few people could potentially cost several members sounds like. Idk. All hypothetical.
     

    vincec

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    And there are a few bad apples that think the rules don't apply to them. Not many but a few for sure. The problem is catching them.

    The deposit idea for steel is not possible. When the range is full, it is not uncommon to have multiple shooters shooting the same piece of steel at the same time, one right after another. There is steel on every range as well. No way to keep up with it.
     

    stage20

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    And there are a few bad apples that think the rules don't apply to them. Not many but a few for sure. The problem is catching them.

    The deposit idea for steel is not possible. When the range is full, it is not uncommon to have multiple shooters shooting the same piece of steel at the same time, one right after another. There is steel on every range as well. No way to keep up with it.
    I have never been there but would like to go. It was an idea.
     

    Jhunter

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    What’s the distance? 5.56 is hard on steel in general and especially at close range. I shoot AR 500 regularly with M855 at 400 yds and beyond without any pitting on the steel.
     

    vincec

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    Range owned/provided steel for rifle is permanently mounted on the back berms at 150 yards. The shooter can bring their own steel but minimum distance is 100 yds for rifle and 12 yards for pistol
     

    olecarver

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    Well get ready, cause my son shot his .44 mag missed the plate an cut the soft butter chain being bought..We fixed our mishap. Like the older car wheel stands some of us built an left out there for years so all members could enjoy,, LEAD cut steal also ..5/8ths rebar cut like butter from lead loads...... Sad but my membership runs out in couple months,, I buy cheap I build cheap so back to the woods even cheaper.........And I was not happy that after keeping my range membership so long we took pride to have card numbers lower than 80 % of the members to be told we now will have to lose that also... a unhappy member if this stays in effect...............
     

    Cstokes91

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    I thought this had been the rule for awhile now?
    I'm honestly not sure. I know they've always had the rule where you don't shoot the steel targets with bi-metal or steel core. As far as not being allowed at all, this is the first I've heard or been told and I take at least one AK shooting bi-metal steel every time I'm out there.

    Agreed as well on plenty of things are going to pit steel plates. I've heard of guys shooting 7n6 at a steel plate and it going through at competitions. Pretty sure the same people buy them a new target lol.

    Sent from my Pixel 4 XL using Tapatalk
     

    FrommerStop

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    Real hot M193 lead core is quite hard on plates also due to the velocity. A lot of people do not get the point that two factors destroy steel. One is the hardness of the metal and the other is velocity. But it seems pointless trying to educate some people. A real hot loaded 22-250 will not do steel plates any good for sure.

    The ban on bimetal bullets will be real pain for me since I shoot a lot of it for training and I have my own steel plates. I could buy .22 conversions kits for training.

    A lot of the people spreading the myth that 7.62x39 destroys steel are 'trainers' that are in the business. On more than one occasion I passed on a course when told I could not use my 7.62x39 ammo in that course. Such often assume a 7.62x39 bullet at 2200-2350 fps with lead core and bimetal jacket does more damage to AR500 plates than does a 55 grain lead core non-ferous jacketed 5.56 at 3000 plus will do. I even had a moderator here tell about just how little I knew because of that.
    DonR one of the moderators here had no problem with me shooting his plates with my AK at that training area in Florala.
     
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