Emergency management performance-- food/ water distribution

[ccather]

For all the good that the Salvation Army does, people need to realize that the organization is religion, a denomination, an unholy division of the one and only Way, and most likely a denomination separate and apart from what you know as the Truth, with books and laws separate and apart and in addition to the Holy Bible. And every dollar anybody gives to them for whatever reason (and that includes them bell ringers at Christmas time) furthers their unholy agenda which is separate and apart from God's will.

OK. If you have a religion, what are they doing to help in these situations? Maybe I can learn from-support- them.

 

[ccather]

Government is slow to respond because of all the hurdles and tape that have to be gone through. Just how it works. 72 hrs after a natural disaster is standard.

Local volunteers and organizations are always going to be able to mobilize before the government. Just the way it works! A lot goes into disaster relief and it takes time!

Who set the 72 hour standard? Are you satisfied with that?

Seems sad that a bunch of volunteers can outperform a group of paid professionals.

 

[Raven]

OK. If you have a religion, what are they doing to help in these situations? Maybe I can learn from-support- them.

Yeah it's called The Church of Christ. Meet at Margaret Street in Milton and a bunch of other places. Non-denominational. Really, almost anti-denominational. Dont believe in having any divisions in the body of Christ, at all, per Gods Holy Word that says dont do it and dont support it. That being said, also dont believe in owing anybody any money and also believe in saving up so that nobody wants for anything (and that includes during hurricanes) per the New Testament biblical example. If its not in Gods Holy Word then we don't do it, pure and simple. The church doesnt have or need any other rulebooks then what God already gave us in the Bible. No divisions (aka denominations) away from the Bible. We have a outreach for people in need, run by a Mr. Greg Lewis last time I helped out with it. Call the Margaret Street building for details. They also are a food distribution point for the food bank.

 

[ccather]

Who set the 72 hour standard? Are you satisfied with that?

Seems sad that a bunch of volunteers in their spare time can outperform a group of paid professionals.

 

[FrommerStop]

To clarify, in my mind personal responsibility is not a get out of jail card that protects a poorly managed system.

Improving that system now is not to better care for the irresponsible (I really do not like that), it is to help the responsible when they cannot help themselves. Remember, stored supplies can be damaged or inaccessible due to structural damage, fire, high water etc. Bad things can happen to even the best prepared among us.

When I see something not working to its potential, my first instinct is to fix it. Not sure how to do that at the moment.

CERT has been around for some time. The Pace branch dissolved out of a lack of interest. Navarre branch SRC is strong.

Bad things can happen to even the best prepared among us.

Yes Virginia there is wolf and the only thing certain for life is death.
Also the best plans of mice and men:

No matter how carefully a project is planned, something may still go wrong with it. The saying is adapted from a line in “To a Mouse,” by Robert Burns: “The best laid schemes o' mice an' men / Gang aft a-gley.”

 

[ccather]

CERT has been around for some time. The Pace branch dissolved out of a lack of interest. Navarre branch SRC is strong.


Yes Virginia there is wolf and the only thing certain for life is death.
Also the best plans of mice and men:

Yes, my daughter, when she was a teen, was trained by CERT in Santa Rosa. I believe I still have the CERT supply backpack around here somewhere.

 

[poppop]

The Salvation Army is an excellent organization and have people and equipment on standby and can move quickly. They were everywhere during Katrina. They have a local presence in a lot of places which local observers can assess damages and local needs quickly. We should all support them.

there are only three charities i support. the salvation army, shriners children's hospital and saint jude’s children's hospital. the salvation army because of their disaster relief efforts.

the united way and red cross can take a hike.

 

[ccather]

How did the Red Cross do here?

From my uninformed view, the United Way seems to be a middle man. Why not just donate directly to a charity?

 

[ccather]

there are only three charities i support. the salvation army, shriners children's hospital and saint jude’s children's hospital. the salvation army because of their disaster relief efforts.

the united way and red cross can take a hike.

I visited the Shriner's Hospital in Tampa. I remember them telling us they cleaned in such a way so the building did not smell like a hospital. They said it helped reduce stress in the children (patients).

 

[Gravity3694]

I like the way that Eric Gilmore is doing it. While there is a playbook for disaster coordination (NIMs, ICS 100-400) published by FEMA and adopted by many agencies its still a tough job. Imagine, having perhaps a few days to speculate where a storm will hit, when it will hit and the intensity of the damage. In the middle of this having to identify what resources are available. Lets not forget, the red tape involved in communicating between agencies who likely have different policies and procedures than you. Not to mention, having to document everything for payment and to protect against fraud. Keep in mind, that you also have to ensure adequate staging areas for all this manpower and equipment. Then when the storm hits having to first ensure the public safety with evacuations and rescues. Identifying the state of the damage and the roads. Then you have to figure out how to feed people. Which honestly is easier when you subcontract it out through volunteer agencies especially when resources such as police, EMS and the Guard are already tied up. On top of this, agencies are filled with human beings with their own family members riding this storm out too. Disaster management isn't easy and specifically with state and local funding, you pay for what you get.

OP you should look at taking some FEMA ICS courses to be informed on the government's response plan and take a tour the Escambia Emergency Ops Center (EOC). I've sat at one of those desks at the EEOC during a disaster and I can assure you given the previously mentioned things they're dealing with, they really are doing the best they can.

 

[ccather]

I like the way that Eric Gilmore is doing it. While there is a playbook for disaster coordination (NIMs, ICS 100-400) published by FEMA and adopted by many agencies its still a tough job. Imagine, having perhaps a few days to speculate where a storm will hit, when it will hit and the intensity of the damage. In the middle of this having to identify what resources are available. Lets not forget, the red tape involved in communicating between agencies who likely have different policies and procedures than you. Not to mention, having to document everything for payment and to protect against fraud. Keep in mind, that you also have to ensure adequate staging areas for all this manpower and equipment. Then when the storm hits having to first ensure the public safety with evacuations and rescues. Identifying the state of the damage and the roads. Then you have to figure out how to feed people. Which honestly is easier when you subcontract it out through volunteer agencies especially when resources such as police, EMS and the Guard are already tied up. On top of this, agencies are filled with human beings with their own family members riding this storm out too. Disaster management isn't easy and specifically with state and local funding, you pay for what you get.

OP you should look at taking some FEMA ICS courses to be informed on the government's response plan and take a tour the Escambia Emergency Ops Center (EOC). I've sat at one of those desks at the EEOC during a disaster and I can assure you given the previously mentioned things they're dealing with, they really are doing the best they can.

Sounds like you are OK with the system as is. System is good enough. Deal with it.

No room for improvement?

My focus is on commodity distribution. If Emergency Management is too busy with other tasks to communicate a need for supplies in a timely manner, they should turn over the management of commodities to those who have proven more capable.

With regards to those FEMA courses, do they indoctrinate/ reinforce/ protect the current system as described above? There may be some merit to studying the structure to see where the bottlenecks are so I will know how it will fail and prepare my family accordingly.

 

[Telum Pisces]

Who set the 72 hour standard? Are you satisfied with that?

Seems sad that a bunch of volunteers can outperform a group of paid professionals.

Look, you are not going to be satisfied with anyone telling you anything! Do you volunteer your time to help people out after a storm? Are you applying for a "paid professional" job to make changes? Or are you just one of the folks on the sidelines asking questions about why it's done the way it is?

 

[ccather]

Look, you are not going to be satisfied with anyone telling you anything! Do you volunteer your time to help people out after a storm? Are you applying for a "paid professional" job to make changes? Or are you just one of the folks on the sidelines asking questions about why it's done the way it is?

Sounds like they are telling me to shut up and be satisfied with the way it is.

How will things improve if we just do that? What is wrong with asking questions? Sorry if it makes some uncomfortable.

I guess some are satisfied with inadequate performance and not willing to improve. Strange. Sad.

 

[3 men & a boat]

I always figure I’m on my own, with only a few immediate friends/family to depend on and I’ve never been disappointed with them.
Concerning FEMA and even volunteer groups, I wish they would just stay away. I’ve watched after hurricanes and disasters they come in, help those that won’t help themselves, make them better than they ever were, then tell me and mine “Oh, you have assets. We’ll get you an SBA loan if you need it.” I watched my uncles house have 4 sets of volunteers, fema workers, and church groups come in and fix it up after Katrina, all while his 2 grown sons, nephews(that lived there), and 3 grandsons sat on their ass and watched others fix their bedroom so they could sleep in it. One of the nephews bragged how he got hired by one of the groups at $10 an hour to paint his own room. I could repeat stories like this a dozen times over with different people. One couple lost their 15 yr old son to CPS for smoking crack with him just prior to Katrina, but they were given free room and board for years after Katrina. I watched a church split after the congregation disagreed on whether to continue giving away clothes, food, etc. after it was brought to their attention that people were taking new clothes, wearing them once and then throwing them away and getting more for free instead of washing them. I watched a man who made it his daily duty to go through all the NG lines to get free ice, water, and MREs dig a hole and bury the boxes of MREs a year later.
My dad and I lost almost 15k in product, houses had 2+feet each, numerous tools and equipment ruined. Fishing closed so no work, but I’m told I should exhaust my savings, mortgage my paid for home, then they could help me. Thanks but No Thanks.
It’s not popular, but I say stay away and let us all pick ourselves back up. Some people are just lazy.
Keep an eye out and you’ll witness just such things if you pay attention.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Telum Pisces]

Sounds like they are telling me to shut up and be satisfied with the way it is.

How will things improve if we just do that? What is wrong with asking questions? Sorry if it makes some uncomfortable.

I guess some are satisfied with inadequate performance and not willing to improve. Strange. Sad.

Nope, just someone that does volunteer and help out with things. Do you volunteer your time or offer your time to help? I ask again! What do you do for a living? Are you going to go sign up to be a part of the emergency management team? Are you going to run for the elected offices to make the change? Plenty of people are out there to ask questions about how it's done and to sit on the sidelines and judge.

I'm telling you to get involved if you want to see how it works and affect change! Nothing more. Nothing less. Talking about it and asking questions on the internet is pointless. Do something about it!

 

[ccather]

I appreciate your thoughts and the challenge to get off my bum.

Being involved and affecting change does not require joining the organization with the problem. You can affect change by working within the system or outside it. Volunteering would not have corrected the management decision to delay the supply request. It may feel and do good but would not effectively address the problem I am concerned about.

The quickest way to upgrade the system is improving the skills of existing management professionals who make the decisions. That is were the power is and the problem. They are likely good people but it appears they were slow to act. I suggest drawing attention to the failure can affect the change I am interested in. Notice how quickly politicians respond/act when negative COVID-19 stories run. Maybe it works for other officials as well.

With that in mind, I am contacting my sister who is a newspaper editor and see if I can get this story loaded onto the AP! As a matter of fact, FEMA has 128,000 sf office in her town. Not sure what they do there. Maybe some contacts.

Thanks, I have a direction for my energy.

 

[ccather]

How does one get involved with the Local Emergency Management system?

I know at one time the center used HAM operators, which I am one (KJ4ZPB), but I did not see anything on the Escambia Emergency Management website about how to volunteer for that or something else.

Thoughts?

73

 

[hatecheese]

I appreciate your thoughts.

Why do you believe that response must take at least 72 hours?

It isn't that the response 'must take' at least 72 hours. It is more about how is it possible to shorten that time. I think that is generally what you are asking.

First, staged supplies - people, vehicles, relief aid - must be far enough away that they are safe and can drive in later. Further away is safer, but then it takes longer to get to the affected areas. Plus you need to call in people, gather supplies, and start to form a plan.

So, how do they drive in? The first 48 hours are information and dis-information overload. Local crews, say the Fire Dept, are clearing roads. For example, 9th ave is F*#$(*, then they round the corner and see that there are blocks where no trees have fallen, then they get further down the road and see more fallen trees. Update 1 is the road is impassible, update 2 is that things are better, update 3 is that it is a mess. Now imagine this info coming in from multiple agencies on thousands of miles of roads. It takes a while to sort this out. Crews have to safely be able to get here. People in need have to have a safe route to the pick up location. What roads are flooded? what is safe? Some roads are not flooded 24hrs later. Are those OK to drive on now? Etc.

Then you have to get the supplies to where they are needed. Power assessments and damage assessments come into play probably with a lot of other things. No need to set up a distribution site at X location, but what about location Y? You can 'plan' for a site to work beforehand but it may not work based on road damage, flooding, available power, or other conditions.

Can you imagine opening just 1 or 2 locations because they are safe, crews can get there and citizens can safely access the location? Everyone would stream to those 1 or 2 locations causing more problems - traffic congestion, traffic accidents, running out of supplies while people are still trying to drive there, etc. Best to have multiple locations that are spread apart to help people from different communities. Now refer back to the previous 2 paragraphs, information overload, changing conditions, etc.

These are just a small sample of things that go into making these decisions. And though I don't do this for a living, I've worked along side those that do. So my opinions are only based on the small parts of what I've seen. Hope that helps to understand why it is more complicated that it would initially appear.

 

[ccather]

Great information! It helps me better understand.

I think the point I am stuck on is this:

It seems the commodities could be prepositioned before the roads are closed in structures that have a history of withstanding storm damage. Most homes in Pensacola were not destroyed by the winds, I would hope there is at least one warehouse in the area that stood up to them. Supplies must be stored somewhere, in this case the report was Tallahassee, why not some here? Do they move the supplies out of Tally to keep them safe if a hurricane hits there? Timely ordering of the commodities might save time and may be safer for the truckers. Ordering commodities "even while the storm was raging" does not seem to be the optimum time to order.

Just trying to understand and maybe work to make things a little better.

I am done talking this to death and will see what I can do to help.

 

[Telum Pisces]

I think the point I am stuck on is this:

It seems the commodities could be prepositioned before the roads are closed in structures that have a history of withstanding storm damage.

Storms move track by 100+ miles 5 days out! How do you propose you stage things? Do you keep moving tons of equipment back and forth like a wave with the forecast? Yeah, not feasible. Do you propose sending in workers and supplies while trees and power lines are down and before roads are deemed safe? What happens if a worker is washed off a road due to flash flooding or road erosion.

You cannot send aid and supplies into an area as soon as people start venturing out of their homes dazed and confused. Roads and bridges have to be deemed safe for the most basic emergency crews first. That takes time. Have you ever drove to all the bridges in a given county in a day?

What you are asking it to move a giant boulder instantly. That boulder takes time to get moving no matter where you are in the country for any disaster.

Certain trigger points are triggered when a system gets into the gulf etc... And as these systems are moving to say TX or FL, other trigger points are hit and buttons to start the process are hit. But you simply cannot stage 100% of what is needed for a storm with an unknown landfall site. The affect 50 miles away from the eye wall can be drastically different and the access and availability to get into an area can differ as well.

You can only do so much. I'm sure each storm gives lessons to be learned though.