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  • FrommerStop

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    Everybody please give this a try and post what your findings are.
    We need lefties and women. Also several different vechs.
    My wife and my friends wife will all train together this weekend.
    Nowadays there is a real possibility that some of us will get caught up in this stuff. Even in NW Fla . . but especially in P'cola. --- SAWMAN
    Relative to combat art, one should be not limited to left or right handed handling of a gun. Practice with both sides for combat purposes.
    Now there are practical considerations in a car of course as to which hand the gun is in. The driver's side is on the left side of the car for example.
     

    Raven

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    In my younger days I was a pizza delivery driver and spent most of my time on base, without the legal ability to carry firearms. I was also an avid IDPA competitor and a huge big fan of the Naval Aviation Museum. I realized that planes in dogfights have something in common with cars in running gun battles. A) it's hard to shoot backwards at the guy behind you, B) it's really easy to shoot forwards at the guy in front of you, C) one of the most successful fighter planes of all time had a thick steel plate behind the drivers seat that protected the cab controls, driver, engine and anything else forward of the back of the cab. I thought at the time that was a great idea for trucks, but other than wargaming it in my mind for a few years I didn't do anything about it. Then a couple years ago it hit me like a ton of bricks when I was shopping for a seat cover for my new truck...... a bullet proof seat cover. So now I've been testing the idea for a while, and it works. I've been leaning on a size extra large kevlar flak jacket wrapped around my driver's seat for two years now, and besides being a cool camo seat cover and providing effective cover from gun fire from the rear, if and when I exit the vehicle under fire then I can wear it. Its readily accessible, not locked in my tool box or under the back seat. What do you guys think? I like it, and for a grand total of only $50, that's some cheap life insurance!
     
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    SAWMAN

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    FrommerStop, seems to me from some if not most of your posts,you are trying to still make it the good guys fault if people get hurt.
    I believe in DEFENSE. None of my posts are promoting offence. I have a right to be in my vechicle. I have a right to be on the roadway. I have the right to protect myself,my family,AND IMO,my property.
    Tell me where you live. I will come over and grab your big screen TV and start walking out the door with it. What are you prepared to do ?? Ask me to stop ?? Call the police ?? Other . . . ??
    If I go to downtown P'cola,get out of my truck,and stand in the middle of Garden Street as to block the flow of traffic,what do you think will happen ?? Will the police come ?? Will they move me ?? Will they arrest me ??
    Damn right they will !! Then why wont they do that with these protesters,looters,and thugs ?? AND the "piecefull" protesters blocking MY street ??
    I should not have to not go here,and not go there. I should not have to take detours because a certain area is deemed "unsafe".I should not have to worry about keeping myself and family safe when I am within the law in my vechicle.
    I respect what I perceive as your opinion. I just do not seem to agree with it. Remember . . . this is about being defensive AND NOT offensive. --- SAWMAN
     

    skyydiver

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    In my younger days I was a pizza delivery driver and spent most of my time on base, without the legal ability to carry firearms. I was also an avid IDPA competitor and a huge big fan of the Naval Aviation Museum. I realized that planes in dogfights have something in common with cars in running gun battles. A) it's hard to shoot backwards at the guy behind you, B) it's really easy to shoot forwards at the guy in front of you, C) one of the most successful fighter planes of all time had a thick steel plate behind the drivers seat that protected the cab controls, driver, engine and anything else forward of the back of the cab. I thought at the time that was a great idea for trucks, but other than wargaming it in my mind for a few years I didn't do anything about it. Then a couple years ago it hit me like a ton of bricks when I was shopping for a seat cover for my new truck...... a bullet proof seat cover. So now I've been testing the idea for a while, and it works. I've been leaning on a size extra large kevlar flak jacket wrapped around my driver's seat for two years now, and besides being a cool camo seat cover and providing effective cover from gun fire from the rear, if and when I exit the vehicle under fire then I can wear it. Its readily accessible, not locked in my tool box or under the back seat. What do you guys think? I like it, and for a grand total of only $50, that's some cheap life insurance!

    I like this idea. How’s the protection from the soft armor? I’d sure like a seat size and shaped ceramic plates and carrier, but then grabbing it and throwing it on is out the window. I guess you could make some kind of quick release handheld shield if there is a legit scenario for that. Anyway, I like the way you think.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     

    FrommerStop

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    FrommerStop, seems to me from some if not most of your posts,you are trying to still make it the good guys fault if people get hurt.
    I believe in DEFENSE. None of my posts are promoting offence. I have a right to be in my vechicle. I have a right to be on the roadway. I have the right to protect myself,my family,AND IMO,my property.
    Tell me where you live. I will come over and grab your big screen TV and start walking out the door with it. What are you prepared to do ?? Ask me to stop ?? Call the police ?? Other . . . ??
    If I go to downtown P'cola,get out of my truck,and stand in the middle of Garden Street as to block the flow of traffic,what do you think will happen ?? Will the police come ?? Will they move me ?? Will they arrest me ??
    Damn right they will !! Then why wont they do that with these protesters,looters,and thugs ?? AND the "piecefull" protesters blocking MY street ??
    I should not have to not go here,and not go there. I should not have to take detours because a certain area is deemed "unsafe".I should not have to worry about keeping myself and family safe when I am within the law in my vechicle.
    I respect what I perceive as your opinion. I just do not seem to agree with it. Remember . . . this is about being defensive AND NOT offensive. --- SAWMAN
    I understand where you are coming from. I just do not think it is smart. My purpose is to survive the confrontation. First thing do not be there. And if you are there then that means surviving the initial assault and also the aftermath of the justice system. I am not looking for a fight. I have no desire to set society right by killing evil doers.
    Yes it is a very different outlook.
    My point is not ego, but going home and carrying on my business as usual afterwards. If you are wealthy, good lawyers on speed dial, and assets to pay bail and such. then be proactive and kill a dozen or more.
    Very good idea to understand the laws of deadly force in Florida first before you act.

    Have you ever been a guest inside a max prison facing serious charges?
     

    FrommerStop

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    In my younger days I was a pizza delivery driver and spent most of my time on base, without the legal ability to carry firearms. I was also an avid IDPA competitor and a huge big fan of the Naval Aviation Museum. I realized that planes in dogfights have something in common with cars in running gun battles. A) it's hard to shoot backwards at the guy behind you, B) it's really easy to shoot forwards at the guy in front of you, C) one of the most successful fighter planes of all time had a thick steel plate behind the drivers seat that protected the cab controls, driver, engine and anything else forward of the back of the cab. I thought at the time that was a great idea for trucks, but other than wargaming it in my mind for a few years I didn't do anything about it. Then a couple years ago it hit me like a ton of bricks when I was shopping for a seat cover for my new truck...... a bullet proof seat cover. So now I've been testing the idea for a while, and it works. I've been leaning on a size extra large kevlar flak jacket wrapped around my driver's seat for two years now, and besides being a cool camo seat cover and providing effective cover from gun fire from the rear, if and when I exit the vehicle under fire then I can wear it. Its readily accessible, not locked in my tool box or under the back seat. What do you guys think? I like it, and for a grand total of only $50, that's some cheap life insurance!

    Some considerations
    First is what caliber and projectiles are trying to stop
    How much sq ft of coverage are you trying to achieve
    How much wt is tolerable. Fully armored cars for example can be heavy.
    How will heat and vibration impact the armor.

    For riots one could maybe use this, The southafricans have this anticarjacker car flame thrower. Not sure if the ATF would be happy with it.

    In the old day with carburetors, I heard story of someone that put a spark plug in this tail pipe set up to ignite unburned fuel shooting out a long flame.
     

    SAWMAN

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    Your most welcome sir. I believe that if we all stick together,and try to help one another,we will all make it thru the hard times and periods of civil unrest.
    We need to share as much info and "lessons learned" as possible. --- SAWMAN
     

    Bowhntr6pt

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    I should not have to not go here,and not go there. I should not have to take detours because a certain area is deemed "unsafe".I should not have to worry about keeping myself and family safe when I am within the law in my vechicle.
    I respect what I perceive as your opinion. I just do not seem to agree with it. Remember . . . this is about being defensive AND NOT offensive. --- SAWMAN

    With all due respect Sir, and I don't mean to take a dump in your thread, so please feel free to delete my post if you so desire... but...

    The NUMBER ONE tactic to avoiding a situation is CONFLICT AVOIDANCE. I'm LEO as you know and go to work now on pins and needles because it's not that I don't trust MY training and skills as far as what's legal or illegal, I no longer trust "the system" to analyze and apply the law(s) as intended.

    With that said, everyone damn sure better be paying attention to their surroundings (Situational Awareness) and adjust their travels accordingly because if you think "the system" is going to asses your conflict with YOUR RIGHTS in mind, you're setting yourself and family up for failure.

    I'd much rather alter or cancel my travel plans, or take a detour if necessary, and look at it as a "best practices" approach until the current climate changes back the other way. No, I'm no taking the chicken shit way out, I'm just applying a cost benefit analysis that has my (and family) best interests at heart.

    No, you shouldn't have to avoid certain areas per se... you're 100% right... but in the end, when the dust settles, what's in your best personal interest?

    If you want to be "Defensive", then rethink "doing what you have a right to do" as compared to "doing what is wise to do".
     

    SAWMAN

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    So obviously you feel that the police are doing the job that they get paid to do. The job that they swore an oath to perform.
    OK . . .
    Someone should state the post number were I stated that I was going to intentionally go down to where the protesters were stationed,in some cases,blocking the public right of way. Don't believe that I ever did.--- SAWMAN
     

    Raven

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    I like this idea. How’s the protection from the soft armor? I’d sure like a seat size and shaped ceramic plates and carrier, but then grabbing it and throwing it on is out the window. I guess you could make some kind of quick release handheld shield if there is a legit scenario for that. Anyway, I like the way you think.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Something else I thought about, only viable for a real WW3 grid down USA doesn't exist anymore scenario, is grabbing a storm sewer manhole cover and a chain and suspending it from the headrest. They're available everywhere, and shaped right, and stop every caliber short of belted magnums
     

    FrommerStop

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    Something else I thought about, only viable for a real WW3 grid down USA doesn't exist anymore scenario, is grabbing a storm sewer manhole cover and a chain and suspending it from the headrest. They're available everywhere, and shaped right, and stop every caliber short of belted magnums
    I do not know how or of what steel manhole covers are made, but I know some of them can stop some 50 BMG loads. They ones that I have dealt with were very heavy.
     

    .270 Win

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    one of the most successful fighter planes of all time had a thick steel plate behind the drivers seat that protected the cab controls, driver, engine and anything else forward of the back of the cab.
    A friend of mine who was a chopper pilot in Viet Nam said they used ceramic plates for the same purpose, called it "chicken plate".
     

    Bowhntr6pt

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    So obviously you feel that the police are doing the job that they get paid to do. The job that they swore an oath to perform.
    OK . . .
    Someone should state the post number were I stated that I was going to intentionally go down to where the protesters were stationed,in some cases,blocking the public right of way. Don't believe that I ever did.--- SAWMAN

    I’m simply referring to your comment about having to or not having to go to a specific place... and I agreed with you.

    And no, the police in many places are doing what they are allowed to do... big difference.

    I’m just saying small concessions can pay big dividends.
     

    FrommerStop

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    In my younger days I was a pizza delivery driver and spent most of my time on base, without the legal ability to carry firearms. I was also an avid IDPA competitor and a huge big fan of the Naval Aviation Museum. I realized that planes in dogfights have something in common with cars in running gun battles. A) it's hard to shoot backwards at the guy behind you, B) it's really easy to shoot forwards at the guy in front of you, C) one of the most successful fighter planes of all time had a thick steel plate behind the drivers seat that protected the cab controls, driver, engine and anything else forward of the back of the cab. I thought at the time that was a great idea for trucks, but other than wargaming it in my mind for a few years I didn't do anything about it. Then a couple years ago it hit me like a ton of bricks when I was shopping for a seat cover for my new truck...... a bullet proof seat cover. So now I've been testing the idea for a while, and it works. I've been leaning on a size extra large kevlar flak jacket wrapped around my driver's seat for two years now, and besides being a cool camo seat cover and providing effective cover from gun fire from the rear, if and when I exit the vehicle under fire then I can wear it. Its readily accessible, not locked in my tool box or under the back seat. What do you guys think? I like it, and for a grand total of only $50, that's some cheap life insurance!

    Some planes did have a rear gunner. A car also could have a rear gunner.

    From 'last crusade' Indiana Jones
    1591999966243.png
     

    FrommerStop

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    Yeah, I almost got shot by an Egyptian rear gunner in a jeep with a belt-fed heavy machine gun. Operation Bright Star 1999. Good times.....
    Good times well. Not for me if can help it lol. I am alergic to bullets coming my way.
     

    Raven

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    And I didnt even get so much as a high five for me and my Warrant Officer avoiding an international incident
     

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    Raven

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    Was all a big joke to Mubarak. He was our best friend in the Middle East. Until the CIA had him ousted
     

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    Raven

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    So, anyways, I would have been well within my rights to kill the rear gunner, but I didnt, and I was better off for it. The only fight you win is the fight you see coming, and avoid.
     
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