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Air Force to Allow Uniformed Members to Wear Turbans, Hijabs, and Beards

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  • Pompnewbie

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    Political correctness is going to kill this freaking country..
    Can't profile Muslims as possible terrorists, but you pull a 80 year old lady with a walker out of line for "enhanced screening"
    I honestly feel politicians are a larger threat than just about anything else.

    Sent from my moto e5 cruise using Tapatalk
     

    Snake-Eyes

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    So.... folks can get medical boarded out of service for not being deployable (stupid stuff, too), but these troops are walking Dead in a bio-chem attack. No effing way you get a good face seal with that crap on your face. I mean, he could stash a tub of Vaseline in his mask carrier to goop up his beard for a semi-decent seal, but that can't be "the approved solution", can it?

    I understand people have their religious beliefs. But when those mental beliefs cause conflict with mission necessity: there's the door. Don't let it hit ya where God split ya. Go enjoy your religious freedom as a civilian.

    And it's a "uniform". The VERY NAME means consistency and "looks alike". We aren't striving for "most diverse appearance" awards. One troop looks like the next troop. High-n-tight, shaved face, doesn't look like a Biggest Loser Contestant.

    Sikh, Muslim, Jew, Christian, Atheist, or Pastafarian ( <--- didn't make that one up), you keep your religious accouterments low key no bling, and they get removed if mission profile dictates. Hell, we didn't even wear our wedding rings when we flew. Physics doesn't give a shit how much you love your wife: in an accidental meeting of two pieces of metal, your fleshy finger loses. THEN your crew loses because they are a crew member down. THEN the squadron loses because it has to pick up the slack.

    If I saw a troop looking like that, I'd figure he's not mission essential. My next thought becomes: "Why is he wasting a spot on the roster then?" because I've seen much better people get shown the door for much less.
     

    MauserLarry

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    "Political correctness is going to kill this freaking country".......................................It's already done killed it.
     

    MauserLarry

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    fl57caveman

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    Political correctness is going to kill this freaking country..
    Can't profile Muslims as possible terrorists, but you pull a 80 year old lady with a walker out of line for "enhanced screening"
    I honestly feel politicians are a larger threat than just about anything else.

    Sent from my moto e5 cruise using Tapatalk

    you see the story about a 6 yr old downs syndrome girl in penn, who make a finger gun, pointed it at her teacher, and said: "I shoot you", teacher called principal, cause she "perceived" it to be a threat, principal called the police to the scene.



    girl did not even know what a gun does at that age, and mental status...

    https://www.insider.com/pennsylvania-school-district-6-year-old-down-syndrome-police-2020-2
     

    Pompnewbie

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    Yeah.. use common sense people.. 6yo with down syndrome not what I would consider a tactical threat.. FFS

    Sent from my moto e5 cruise using Tapatalk
     

    fl57caveman

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    So.... folks can get medical boarded out of service for not being deployable (stupid stuff, too), but these troops are walking Dead in a bio-chem attack. No effing way you get a good face seal with that crap on your face. I mean, he could stash a tub of Vaseline in his mask carrier to goop up his beard for a semi-decent seal, but that can't be "the approved solution", can it?

    I understand people have their religious beliefs. But when those mental beliefs cause conflict with mission necessity: there's the door. Don't let it hit ya where God split ya. Go enjoy your religious freedom as a civilian.

    And it's a "uniform". The VERY NAME means consistency and "looks alike". We aren't striving for "most diverse appearance" awards. One troop looks like the next troop. High-n-tight, shaved face, doesn't look like a Biggest Loser Contestant.

    Sikh, Muslim, Jew, Christian, Atheist, or Pastafarian ( <--- didn't make that one up), you keep your religious accouterments low key no bling, and they get removed if mission profile dictates. Hell, we didn't even wear our wedding rings when we flew. Physics doesn't give a shit how much you love your wife: in an accidental meeting of two pieces of metal, your fleshy finger loses. THEN your crew loses because they are a crew member down. THEN the squadron loses because it has to pick up the slack.

    If I saw a troop looking like that, I'd figure he's not mission essential. My next thought becomes: "Why is he wasting a spot on the roster then?" because I've seen much better people get shown the door for much less.

    I fully believe all of these "fringe" freaks, LBGTBBQ,, mooslems, Sikhs, etc all join for the bennies, not to serve the country...then they expect
    the military to kiss ass to accommodate them once they enlist...or they run to the nearest lawyer

    jmho
     
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    USAF Sarge

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    Question is will it be limited based on AFSC. You cannot get a proper seal with an O2 mask, this could lead to a hypoxia situation. Which is considered a physiological incident, and is something we didn't like in the Aircrew Life Support / Aircrew Flight Equipment career field.

    Also if the facial hair is oily, it can lead to a flash fire when using O2 equipment. This was why we had to brief female aircrews not to use oil based makeup.

    The issue I take is by allowing certain grooming standards/trends you end up causing life threatening conditions, by making it impossible for Protective Equipment to be properly fitted and used. It defeats the purpose of the equipment.
     

    wildrider666

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    The "acceptance" of reasonable accomodation above all other STANDARDS, destroys those Standards. They will ultimately allow jet pilots/crew that use oxygen systems wear U2 " moon suits and helmets" to accommodate beards. However, longer hair and especially beards were pretty common in the Sandbox and some of our Servicewomen had to (Policy) wear "head scarfs" (hajibs without the religous angle).

    It's a volunteer force but the military can't maintain selective choice due to PC even though there is no Right to serve in the military. Accomodation no different than females "completing" Ranger School" but no in curriculum for their Grade, they passed the less physical "generals course". Every accomidation creates a weaker link and the sum of the Force will never be greater than its parts. Will the users of "Timeout Cards" be more inclined to quit the task, mission or surrender when shit gets bad? Will their lower bar qualifications or quitter mentality and voiced opinions undermine unit cohesion, moral and the will to fight?

    Every soldier can wear an "I participated beret" which was done as a means to improve moral, isn't that special! Shot the true Green Berets in the back. Just one more cave in at the expense of others.

    In dozens of areas our forces get weaker due to PC. PC and the requirements of War are incompatible and forfiet advantage to adversaries.
     

    FrommerStop

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    In the airforce or seals the attire could be problem. In land forces all should be good. Both the US Army and the British Forces use turban wearing Sikhs.

    I have no problem with the sikhs since they love to kill muslims. The british have sikh and highlander units,
    No one can doubt this man's service
    Colonel Gopal Singh Khalsa

    Colonel Khalsa joined the U.S. Army in 1976 as a Private, and served in
    the Special Forces Unit for 10 years on Parachute Status, as a Battalion
    Commander overseeing an 800-person intelligence group, and also received
    a Meritorious Service Medal with Silver Oak Leaf Cluster Award, amongst many
    other honors. He is a graduate of the Army Officer Candidate School in Georgia,
    and was inducted into the Officer Candidate School Hall of Fame in 2004.
    Colonel Khalsa currently serves in the reserve command, and has
    therefore served in the U.S. Army for 33 years.


    hscolgopalsingh.jpg

    Sergeant Sevak Singh Kroesen

    Sergeant Kroesen enlisted in the U.S. Army reserves in 1976 and was
    attached to the Signal Company, 11th Special Forces Group after which
    he successfully completed airborne (paratrooper) and Radio Teletype
    Transmission Operator training. He then completed his Special Forces
    Qualification Courses and became a Special Forces Communications
    Sergeant. He completed this rigorous training, and his Sikh articles of faith
    were never a hindrance to his service. Sergeant Kroesen subsequently
    completed schools, training, and missions around the world all with honor
    and distinction. He was honorably discharged from active duty in 1991.

    hssgtsevaksingh.jpg


    British soldiers.


    The british even had Scottish troops go into battle wearing kilts.
    15324328-7187513-image-a-41_1561633919311.jpg
     

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    Constantine93

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    I have a two part statement.
    (1)There are plenty of SF members (in all NATO ally countries) that have beards. Chemical attacks are a serious cause of concern but if someone dies because the gas mask did not make a proper seal due to facial hair effecting the mask then thank Darwin for one less idiot.

    (2) If Muslims choose to live in western countries then they need to obey Western Christian laws and principles. Yugoslavia was destroyed by Islam (and Socialism obviously) I am not going through that shit again. It is not secret the western developed world is on the verge of collapse. America specifically use to be a European Christian majority population and now whites are barely above 50%, that number is going to get smaller and smaller over the next 20-30 years. Virtually all western nations have been invaded by Migrants. They are exploiting the western world for her wealth and resources mostly because the shit holes countries (south of the U.S. boarder, entire continent of Afrika, the middle east are complete shit hole nations.) Afrika is the shit hole all other shit holes will not even shit in.
    In the West Jesus is King.
    We (whites) must maintain our European Christian traditions and values. If the Indians, Pakis, Arabs, Afrikans, Mexicans (to include all of the other people from South of the Boarder) were replaced by Japanese or Singaporean people I would not complain. I have much respect for Asians (excluding the Virus situation in China now). Asians and Whites are the only races in all of history that have built magnificent advanced civilizations that have stood the test of time.
    It is time to wake up, for the past 20 years the western world has been asleep, 9/11, Iraq, Afghanistan, the crash of 2008 this was all to keep you asleep.
     
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    IronBeard

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    Carving out exceptions for a few, regardless of reason is not equal treatment, it's just an exception for a few. PC does not equal equal treatment. Equal treatment should apply equally to all, period. Any middle ground (exceptions) is not equality, but is preferential/deferential treatment of a select group; there goes equality. There are only two options in this situation to ensure equal treatment. Either every one can have a beard, or no one can have a beard. Pick one.
     

    FrommerStop

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    Carving out exceptions for a few, regardless of reason is not equal treatment, it's just an exception for a few. PC does not equal equal treatment. Equal treatment should apply equally to all, period. Any middle ground (exceptions) is not equality, but is preferential/deferential treatment of a select group; there goes equality. There are only two options in this situation to ensure equal treatment. Either every one can have a beard, or no one can have a beard. Pick one.
    You do have point. One size to fit all. My point is I would prefer to have sikhs beards and all for combat. It is literally is in their blood to kill muslims.
     

    SAWMAN

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    Wearing a "fairly" closely trimmed (almost 1/2 inch) full beard in the military,I was subjected to several different wearing of O2 masks. In extremely low pressure environments,up to almost 25,000ft (actual) and in a low pressure chamber "up to" 30,000ft.
    At one point I had to get O2 and ejection seat certified to get a ride in the back seat of a F-4 Phantom. IMO there are two kinds of seals over a close beard. A O2 seal and a chemical and/or biological seal. A beard would never produce a tight enough seal for chem/bio . . . IMO. ---- SAWMAN
     

    FrommerStop

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    I have a two part statement.
    (1)There are plenty of SF members (in all NATO ally countries) that have beards. Chemical attacks are a serious cause of concern but if someone dies because the gas mask did not make a proper seal due to facial hair effecting the mask then thank Darwin for one less idiot.

    (2) If Muslims choose to live in western countries then they need to obey Western Christian laws and principles. Yugoslavia was destroyed by Islam (and Socialism obviously) I am not going through that shit again. It is not secret the western developed world is on the verge of collapse. America specifically use to be a European Christian majority population and now whites are barely above 50%, that number is going to get smaller and smaller over the next 20-30 years. Virtually all western nations have been invaded by Migrants. They are exploiting the western world for her wealth and resources mostly because the shit holes countries (south of the U.S. boarder, entire continent of Afrika, the middle east are complete shit hole nations.) Afrika is the shit hole all other shit holes will not even shit in.
    In the West Jesus is King.
    We (whites) must maintain our European Christian traditions and values. If the Indians, Pakis, Arabs, Afrikans, Mexicans (to include all of the other people from South of the Boarder) were replaced by Japanese or Singaporean people I would not complain. I have much respect for Asians (excluding the Virus situation in China now). Asians and Whites are the only races in all of history that have built magnificent advanced civilizations that have stood the test of time.
    It is time to wake up, for the past 20 years the western world has been asleep, 9/11, Iraq, Afghanistan, the crash of 2008 this was all to keep you asleep.
    Some of what you want to do for practical reasons is true. Some of the facts are more complicated.
    Just a little history lesson. What was the fertile crescent where civilization and farming began were in places that the above posts say were not important in civilization.
    Note Egypt that was one of the oldest and at one time the greatest civilization is in Africa. Prior to the invasions by the muslims North Africa was Christian and even spoke a Latin based language. All of that has disappeared since the muslims invaded in the I guess the 700's and even took spain and were stopped in France.
    Persia (Iran) whose stretch into Afghanistan was invaded first by the most destructive barbarians, the mongols that often destroyed huge cities and killed huge number people. Then got worse when the turkic tribes that were close allies of the Mongols and also the later mongol that became muslim. I think the Turks destroyed the economies of the middle east.
    You are right in someways. But a little more reading of history would not hurt. Learning is really good for all of us.
    I think the lessons of history do support what you want you to do.

    Fertile-Crescent.jpg
     
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    fl57caveman

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    I have a two part statement.
    (1)There are plenty of SF members (in all NATO ally countries) that have beards. Chemical attacks are a serious cause of concern but if someone dies because the gas mask did not make a proper seal due to facial hair effecting the mask then thank Darwin for one less idiot.

    (2) If Muslims choose to live in western countries then they need to obey Western Christian laws and principles. Yugoslavia was destroyed by Islam (and Socialism obviously) I am not going through that shit again. It is not secret the western developed world is on the verge of collapse. America specifically use to be a European Christian majority population and now whites are barely above 50%, that number is going to get smaller and smaller over the next 20-30 years. Virtually all western nations have been invaded by Migrants. They are exploiting the western world for her wealth and resources mostly because the shit holes countries (south of the U.S. boarder, entire continent of Afrika, the middle east are complete shit hole nations.) Afrika is the shit hole all other shit holes will not even shit in.
    In the West Jesus is King.
    We (whites) must maintain our European Christian traditions and values. If the Indians, Pakis, Arabs, Afrikans, Mexicans (to include all of the other people from South of the Boarder) were replaced by Japanese or Singaporean people I would not complain. I have much respect for Asians (excluding the Virus situation in China now). Asians and Whites are the only races in all of history that have built magnificent advanced civilizations that have stood the test of time.
    It is time to wake up, for the past 20 years the western world has been asleep, 9/11, Iraq, Afghanistan, the crash of 2008 this was all to keep you asleep.



    I nominate this post as best post by a newcomer in quite a while.....

    welcome to the forum
     

    Constantine93

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    Some of what you want to do for practical reasons is true. Some of the facts are more complicated.
    Just a little history lesson. What was the fertile crescent where civilization and farming began were in places that the above posts say were not important in civilization.
    Note Egypt that was one of the oldest and at one time the greatest civilization is in Africa. Prior to the invasions by the muslims North Africa was Christian and even spoke a Latin based language. All of that has disappeared since the muslims invaded in the I guess the 700's and even took spain and were stopped in France.
    Persia (Iran) whose stretch into Afghanistan was invaded first by the most destructive barbarians, the mongols that often destroyed huge cities and killed huge number people. Then got worse when the turkic tribes that were close allies of the Mongols and also the later mongol that became muslim. I think the Turks destroyed the economies of the middle east.
    You are right in someways. But a little more reading of history would not hurt. Learning is really good for all of us.
    I think the lessons of history do support what you want you to do.

    Fertile-Crescent.jpg


    Would you live in North Afrika? Last I checked Afrikans were leaving the continent to move to western nations. I have yet to see any western born person moving to Afrika.

    Egypt is not Afrika I do not care if it is geographically on the continent, the only way the pyramids were built were by labor of enslaved Semitic Hebrews. Goat fuckers that live in caves and shit in hole in the ground are too inbred and retard to build anything and spear chucking blacks are too busy getting mauled by lions or dying from aids or malaria.
    So some dune coons built a few nice buildings over the course of 2000 years, who invented electricity(Nikola Tesla), gun power (the Chinese), quantum physics, rocket ships, airplane, the automobile, satellites, the internet, the mobile phone, all of these inventions were from White (and gun power being Chinese) people. Some cultures are better than others, some people are just incapable of living in western civilization. You can take the monkey out of the jungle, but you cannot take the jungle out of the monkey.
     
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    FrommerStop

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    Would you live in North Afrika? Last I checked Afrikans were leaving the continent to move to western nations. I have yet to see any western born person moving to Afrika.

    Egypt is not Afrika I do not care if it is geographically on the continent, the only way the pyramids were built were by labor of enslaved Semitic Hebrews. Goat fuckers that live in caves and shit in hole in the ground are too inbred and retard to build anything and spear chucking blacks are too busy getting mauled by lions or dying from aids or malaria.
    So some dune coons built a few nice buildings over the course of 2000 years, who invented electricity(Nikola Tesla), gun power (the Chinese), quantum physics, rocket ships, airplane, the automobile, satellites, the internet, the mobile phone, all of these inventions were from White (and gun power being Chinese) people. Some cultures are better than others, some people are just incapable of living in western civilization. You can take the monkey out of the jungle, but you cannot take the jungle out of the monkey.
    Virulent racism does not do any real good in this world. Last I heard was that MAGA was open to all people. I like the image below a lot better than what you are saying. Really not much point to saying more since deep hatred is never solved by words .

    GettyImages_1051895754.0.jpg
     
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