APOD Firearms

Rifle for Night Vision Hunting

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  • Pudge

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    Looking for some 'expert' advice to help me choose the right rifle for night time hunting. I recently purchased a new Sightmark Wraith Digital scope and want to pick the right rifle to go with it. I don't have any experience with these digital scopes but have heard about 200m is the norm at night and with a better IR illuminator can bump that upwards of 700-800 meters at least for seeing things. During the day there doesn't seem to be really any restrictions with it's use. That being said it's primary function will be for use hunting hogs and coyotes at night but I'd like to be able to use it on deer during the daytime as well. I know that long shots are not the norm here in Florida but eventually I'll be moving to Kansas and there are definitely long shots to be made there.

    I know I want it to go on a bolt gun but I don't know if I want to go with .300 blackout or .308. I already have a .308 so it is not a new caliber but I will suppress it and know .300 blackout is supposed to get fairly quite. The sight has 5 different rifle setups so I figure if I go .300 blackout I can set one zero for subs and one for supers that can be changed with just a couple button presses. My biggest question with .300 blk is if it will hamstring my overall effective distance. What is the max range for subs? Supers? Will it be effective to use on all 3 of these critters.

    If I go with .300 blk I will go with the Ruger American Ranch because it is already threaded, takes AR mags, has a picatinny rail ready for my sight, and is fairly inexpensive in the realm of bolt guns with these features. Not really any preference if I go with .308.

    I know that some of you have a lot of experience hunting hogs at night and any information on the subject would be greatly appreciated. Thanks
     

    John B.

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    Personally I would go semi auto. Follow up shots with a bolt gun, while doable, are going to be slower. 6.8spc is a favorite for many hog killers.

    Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk
     

    wildrider666

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    I think your putting too many opposites into a bucket and hoping to pour out one answer. The Kansas desire for distance capability kills the 300BO. Screening ballistic tables will show the drops and you can have "Zeros" for different ranges with that scope but that won't fix terminal energy which is why its dropping like a rock. You would also be carrying excess weight and consuming batteries with no advantage in daylight deer hunts. Though FL is generally "overgrown" with vegetation, it doesn't necessarily mean you will be limited to short distances: you choose the hunting area but the caliber can limit practical distances. You can shoot .308 "close" but you can't shoot 300BO effectively "far".

    https://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/ask-foghorn-zero-distance-for-300-aac-blackout/

    Your electro-optic may be illegal for hunting in Kansas due to "optical scopes or sights that project no visible light toward the target and do not electronically amplify visible or infrared light may be used." Suppressor use while hunting is lawful in Kansas but its wise to ensure your in compliance when you actually get there.

    https://ksoutdoors.com/Hunting/Hunting-Regulations/Deer/Legal-Equipment


    If you reevaluate and toss out Kansas/longer distances, the 300BO would serve you well in FL. IMHO YMMV.
     

    Daezee

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    I've taken 26 deer, 24 hogs, and 4 coyotes hunting with the 300 Blackout, all with supersonic ammo with a suppressor. In my opinion, it is a 200yd cartridge fired out of a 16" bbl. 150yd cartridge from a 9.5-10.5" bbl. 100yd cartridge from a 7.5-8" bbl. Even though supersonic, sometimes other animals not being shot will stay in the area, making for multiple shots possible when suppressed, but don't count on it. Distances based upon trajectory, bullet speed needed for expansion and energy, and personal experience upon cleaning the animals. However, I AM A 300 BLACKOUT FAN BOY.

    A friend has a digital night vision scope. He goes out with us using thermal scopes. He has successfully taken hogs. Hard for him to scan with digital UNLESS the IR light happens to reflect back off the animal's eyes, in which case the reflected light is like a beacon pointing to the animal in his digital scope. On the other hand, spotting a heat signature with the thermal, but not being sure what the animal is, we point him in the direction so he can ID the animal for us. If one were overlooking a feeder at night, since you know where the hogs would be, digital would be fine.

    Not counted in the above totals, I've used suppressed subsonic 300 Blackout to kill trapped hogs at close range with all head shots; of course that is not hunting. All the above is per my experience.
     
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    FrankT

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    should go on an AR for proper eye and LOP 6.8 is ideal 308 for over 400yds. Sometimes difficult to align and the scope is not as steady on a bolt gun and few followup shots.
    So a 308 in a bolt will work well for you if you can fix the above limitations...either you will need to shoot super not subsonic
     
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    Pudge

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    Thank you everyone for weighing in here. This is exactly what I was hoping for, some wisdom from those who have probably already went through some of these same dilemmas. Wildrider, I have other guns set up for my day/long range shooting but didn't want to miss out in the off chance I take a trip somewhere and am limited on which firearms I bring. Daezee, I would love to get a thermal but that may be awhile. I wanted to make sure I could at least get out there first and go from there versus waiting forever to get all the 'right' equipment. It is good to hear that 300 blackout will do what I ask though at least within 200 yds. John and Frank, I've never messed with 6.8 but I may have to look into it as if I don't go with .308 it's another caliber regardless.
     

    MauserLarry

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    I use an Aero Precision 277 Wolverine with my night vision scope. I wouldn't use a bolt action to hunt hogs unless I was in a stand or tree.
     

    FrankT

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    Thank you everyone for weighing in here. This is exactly what I was hoping for, some wisdom from those who have probably already went through some of these same dilemmas. Wildrider, I have other guns set up for my day/long range shooting but didn't want to miss out in the off chance I take a trip somewhere and am limited on which firearms I bring. Daezee, I would love to get a thermal but that may be awhile. I wanted to make sure I could at least get out there first and go from there versus waiting forever to get all the 'right' equipment. It is good to hear that 300 blackout will do what I ask though at least within 200 yds. John and Frank, I've never messed with 6.8 but I may have to look into it as if I don't go with .308 it's another caliber regardless.

    If you are going bolt go 308..I think Sawman had one for sale that I love
     

    M118LR

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    It's all about eye relief vice recoil. So far even the ATN PS22 pick the Generation isn't able to reach out as far as the .308/7.62 x 51mm. Personally I've regulated the NVS to the low recoil of the 5.56 x 45mm. JMHO.
    556.jpg
     

    FrankT

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    My 6.8's work very well for that too. Low recoil and 70% of a 308 and lots more killing power than the 223
     

    Bowhntr6pt

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    I have extensive experience hunting at night and below is just my opinion on hunting at distance at night.

    ID of animals, no matter how great your gear is, gets difficult at distance. Range estimation gets difficult at distance. Killing animals gets difficult at distance. IMO just about everything changes when you're talking about 300+ yards and out. I've killed beyond that, but generally will not shoot past 200.

    I've used PVS-14's with IR laser, D790 Magnus w/ White Phosphor, Pulsar Trail XP50, and a Trijicon Hunter MK III 35mm. So I've ued quality gear, except the Pulsar, very disappointed with zero shift. NV is difficult at distance because shadows and shades, Thermal is great but resolution suffers when magnified, thus making ID difficult at distance.

    I guess my point is... night hunting at distance is, well, different.

    Like M118LR, I limit my NV gear and Thermal to 6.8 SPC/6.5 Grendel class rifles. I know the Trijicon is rated for .308, but I find it comforting to have the unit, because of cost, on a milder recoiling rifle.

    Just my thoughts as I see you mentioned distance a couple times.
     

    M118LR

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    Started on a 7.62 x 39 mm. JMO but scope eye seriously influences your ability to put rounds on target for the remainder of that night.
     

    SAWMAN

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    Look at it like this - -> you don't want to out look what you can shoot . . AND . . you don't want to be able to out shoot what you can see.
    I do not own a NVD but I have owned and used thermal for almost 6 years now. Your shots will typically be closer. You do not want to just shoot at eyes. What animals eyes would be the question. You want to make sure of your target. Deer eyes look like hog eyes,look like coon eyes,look like fox eyes,etc.
    You want to "light up" the target animal enough so that you can positively ID your target . . AND . . be able to place the bullet on his head/neck/chest not on his ass.
    For this . . you need the "closer" range.
    Night vision is all about your IR illuminator. Spend the money and get a powerful one.
    And the gun - - -> IMO you will not need a 308Win. The 223/5.56,6.8SPC,6.5Grendel,even the 300BLK with 16 inches of bbl,shooting the right bullet,will serve you well. And it wont beat up you OR your NVD. --- SAWMAN
     

    Pudge

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    You all bring up some very good points. I know 6.5 and 6.8 are highly recommended but I'm really swaying towards 300blk right now due to lack of recoil, sight should be able to ID targets beyond shooting range so that I can identify and then stalk closer if need be, and running subsonics just for fun shoots would be, well, fun!
    I have the ability to run a 5.56 AR with IR laser and NVGs if I wanted something quicker shooting which is also why I want to go with a bolt gun. Now just to find the rifle I want for sale!
     

    M118LR

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    You all bring up some very good points. I know 6.5 and 6.8 are highly recommended but I'm really swaying towards 300blk right now due to lack of recoil, sight should be able to ID targets beyond shooting range so that I can identify and then stalk closer if need be, and running subsonics just for fun shoots would be, well, fun!
    I have the ability to run a 5.56 AR with IR laser and NVGs if I wanted something quicker shooting which is also why I want to go with a bolt gun. Now just to find the rifle I want for sale!
    Pudge: I've been a Small Arms Trainer Qualifier in the Military, (Means I've attended and passed all of the Military Small Arms Courses.) My self imposed limit on four legged Game Animals is 300 yards. (Dayscope.) I have "Battlefield Experience" with bolt action rifles, but for unsuppressed operations I'd really recommend an AR inside of 100 yards. If you can't stalk within that distance in the Dark, equipment isn't a substitute, JMHO. YMMV.
     

    Pudge

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    Pudge: I've been a Small Arms Trainer Qualifier in the Military, (Means I've attended and passed all of the Military Small Arms Courses.) My self imposed limit on four legged Game Animals is 300 yards. (Dayscope.) I have "Battlefield Experience" with bolt action rifles, but for unsuppressed operations I'd really recommend an AR inside of 100 yards. If you can't stalk within that distance in the Dark, equipment isn't a substitute, JMHO. YMMV.

    I'd agree with the AR for unsuppressed work but I'm going to suppress it, main reason for choosing the bolt gun route. I've got decent longish range experience and want to make sure I'm not hamstrung by my rifle if I choose to run it during daylight with this digital scope. Not too worried about the stalking part either
     

    M118LR

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    I'd agree with the AR for unsuppressed work but I'm going to suppress it, main reason for choosing the bolt gun route. I've got decent longish range experience and want to make sure I'm not hamstrung by my rifle if I choose to run it during daylight with this digital scope. Not too worried about the stalking part either

    Irregardless of the caliber, select an adjustable gas block if you intend AR suppressed operations. Today's Bolt Guns need to be capable at 1500 Meters Suppressed, which isn't a Sport Hunter Requirement!

    I've got a little Bolt Action Experience. But that is long ago and far away. LOL.
    mac50TAC1.jpg
     
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    M118LR

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    So if I may be so bold, Expert Military Shooting is based on 98% of known range shots completed. Prior to attempting a shot at range, you should actually be able to perform that shot 98% of the time at an unmoving known distance paper target prior to taking the shot afield. JMHO. YMMV, but your success rate is scalable.

    This is going to cause 30-30 Hunters to expend rounds on 8 inch paper plates at 100 yards standing unsupported prior to next year's hunting season?

    Bottom Line: If you haven't done it 98 out of 100 times at an unmoving paper target, don't do it afield on live game. JMO.

    But Y'all's personal goals and self set limitations probably differ from mine. So If 9 out of ten rounds from your 30-30 Standing Unsupported strike a 8 inch paper plate at 100 yards and your good with it, go for it. JMHO.

    But if you expect to use subsonic suppressed rounds guided by an NVS in the middle of a moonless night at distances over 100 yards, perhaps the 50 BMG is the only bolt action that can perform on live 4 footed game animals Humanitarianly. JMHO. But they are really heavy to hump. JMHO LOL
     
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