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  1. #31
    50 CAL FrommerStop's Avatar
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    It was a 'Legion of Merit'
    WASHINGTON (AP) _ The Navy has granted commendation medals to the commander and the anti-air warfare officer who were serving aboard the USS Vincennes in 1988 when the Aegis cruiser shot down an Iranian airliner over the Persian Gulf, a spokesman said on Monday.

    A Navy spokesman, Lt. Cmdr. Craig Quigley, said a Legion of Merit was given to Capt. Will C. Rogers III for ″exceptionally meritorious conduct in the performance of outstanding service″ during his command of the ship from April 1987 to May 1989.

    The ship’s weapons and combat systems officer, Lt. Cmdr. Scott E. Lustig, was granted two Navy Commendation Medals, Quigley said.

    One award was for his ″meritorious service″ during his May 1984 to December 1988 tour aboard the cruiser. The second was in recognition of his role during an engagement with seven Iranian gunboats in the Persian Gulf on July 3, 1988.

    ″His ability to maintain his poise and confidence under fire contributed directly to the calm and professional atmosphere throughout the combat information center,″ the citation said of Lustig.

    Although the skirmish with the Iranian vessels occurred shortly before the Aegis shot the airliner down - killing 290 people aboard - the tragedy isn’t mentioned in the texts of the citations, which were made available by the Navy.

    The accident was blamed on a series of human errors that resulted in Rogers’ decision to shoot down the airliner.

    A Navy investigation found that the tactical information coordinator had reported that the airliner was descending, when it actually was ascending, a mistake that led Rogers to believe his ship was under attack.


  2. #32
    50 CAL wildrider666's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FrommerStop View Post
    It was a 'Legion of Merit'
    One Award for a specific event was for action against "gunboats". Nothing favorable about shooting down the Jet nor any mention of it. The other two Awards presented above: covered large periods of Time/Duty and are known informally as "end of tour" awards. Award Citations contain within the narrative: the justification(s) for Award to the individual(s)/group/command. If the Citations don't list an event it is not considered revelant. If the U.S./DOD/MIL were going to "praise" those persons regarding the Iranian jet: that "justification" would be listed AND IT'S NOT!
    So all statements that Awards/Medals were given for "shooting down the jet" is a pure propaganda LIE!
    Wild Rider

    Those that give up their guns are on a self destructive fools errand. Tyranny shall never take what it didn't provide: not by paper, not by Court and not by force.

  3. #33
    50 CAL FrommerStop's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wildrider666 View Post
    One Award for a specific event was for action against "gunboats". Nothing favorable about shooting down the Jet nor any mention of it. The other two Awards presented above: covered large periods of Time/Duty and are known informally as "end of tour" awards. Award Citations contain within the narrative: the justification(s) for Award to the individual(s)/group/command. If the Citations don't list an event it is not considered revelant. If the U.S./DOD/MIL were going to "praise" those persons regarding the Iranian jet: that "justification" would be listed AND IT'S NOT!
    So all statements that Awards/Medals were given for "shooting down the jet" is a pure propaganda LIE!
    I think my last post lists many of the knowable facts. With what you say you know about how these awards done may be enough of an explanation. Does not seem on those facts that there was any censure for shooting down that plane.
    A pipe bomb was used on the Rogers' car.
    Bomb Blows Up Van Driven by Wife of Vincennes Captain; She Escapes
    By LEONARD BERNSTEIN and RICHARD A. SERRANO
    March 11, 1989
    12 AM
    Times Staff Writers
    SAN DIEGO —

    The wife of Capt. Will Rogers III, skipper of the San Diego-based Vincennes, escaped unharmed Friday morning moments before a pipe bomb exploded under her van, igniting a fire that gutted her vehicle at a busy La Jolla intersection.
    The case at least publicly was never solved and later the authorities said it was personal and not terrorism.
    Wiki
    Five months later, the Associated Press reported that the Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI) had shifted focus away from terrorism towards the possibility of someone with a personal vendetta against Captain Rogers.[15] As of 2003, the bombing of Rogers' van remains an unsolved case, despite a major investigation involving at some time up to 300 police and FBI agents.[16] On February 17, 1993, the case was featured on the TV show Unsolved Mysteries, but no additional information was uncovered.
    Naval career following Vincennes
    Rogers' next assignment was as commanding officer of the United States Navy Tactical Training Group at Naval Base Point Loma, a group responsible for training officers in handling combat situations.[14] He retired from the United States Navy in August 1991.[2] In 1992, Rogers and his wife Sharon co-wrote a book, Storm Center: A Personal Account of Tragedy & Terrorism which describes the events surrounding the downing of Iran Air 655 and the minivan bombing from their personal perspectives.[

  4. #34
    50 CAL wildrider666's Avatar
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    There was no Gov/Mil "Censure" towards Capt or Crew. I don't know if the entire Admirals Report has been released. U.S. sent Regrets and paid some compensation. The Capt continued in Commanding Officer positions. I don't know about the wife's car bombing but as you referenced "it's unrelated". I'm moving on.
    Wild Rider

    Those that give up their guns are on a self destructive fools errand. Tyranny shall never take what it didn't provide: not by paper, not by Court and not by force.

  5. #35
    GCGF Supporter SAWMAN's Avatar
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    Please correct me if I am wrong.
    The aircraft that the Vincennes shot down was traveling way off course. It was closing on the Vincennes. Many attempts were made to communicate with the aircraft . . in several different languages.
    When the aircraft got within the ships safe zone,it was shot down.
    People . . . ever hear of the 21ft rule ?? How close to you would you allow a man,walking toward you with a knife get,before you would shoot him ?? ---- SAWMAN
    "Why just dance when you can "rock and roll".
    STONER 63A (MK-23 / XM-207)
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  7. #36
    50 CAL Snake-Eyes's Avatar
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    Iranians attacked our troops and killed an American, so we rid the world of their terrorist general.
    Iran shot dozens of missiles into Iraq and AGAIN tried to kill Americans.
    On the same night Iran shot down an airliner.

    Somehow, the pot-stirring managed to shift the thread from Iran dropping bombs on Iraq to some kind of BS "Warren Commission" about Flight 655 where the U.S. is now on trial...

    Perfect misdirection and blame shifting. Straight outta the democrat playbook. Well done.

    Can you all start a different thread for this crap?
    Never under-estimate the Will and Ingenuity of the Oppressed...

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  9. #37
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    Hmm , A deep cover liberal is someone who supposedly pretends to be ultra-conservative with the intended purpose of discrediting conservative political parties or conservatives in general. They act in a way contrary to their own beliefs and often sacrifice their credibility to defend the public against world-renowned nut jobs .
    Last edited by FLT; 01-13-2020 at 12:18 PM.
    The only reason to disarm a man is to force him to do something that you couldn’t force him to do if he was armed.

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  11. #38
    GCGF Supporter SAWMAN's Avatar
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    Why was the aircraft exiting Iranian airspace shot down ??
    Just a possibility - - -> The aircraft was outbound Iranian airspace. Couldn't the radar operator tell this ?? This was a large aircraft verses a missile. Couldn't the radar discriminate between the two ?? The aircraft was climbing out at 250-300kts or so. An inbound missile is flying faster than that. Couldn't the radar operator tell the speed of the target ??
    Soooooooo . . . What could be other reasons why the aircraft was shot down ?? Was there someone or some thing aboard the plane that the Iranians did not want to leave the country ??
    Maybe plans,blueprints,other documents that would prove embarrassing to the government ?? Mabe someone attempting to leave/defect ?? Possibly BOTH ??
    Seems that there was an awful fast attempt to "clean up". Bulldozers scrapeing up the wreckage into piles. Front end loaders scooping it up and loading it into dump trucks. This seems to be no way to preserve the scene but a great way to hide or eliminate truth telling information.
    Hummmmmmm. . . ??? --- SAWMAN
    ADDED: Those of you that think that this is a possibility . . . I can tell you another about a "3 meter dredge".
    Last edited by SAWMAN; 01-14-2020 at 06:55 AM.
    "Why just dance when you can "rock and roll".
    STONER 63A (MK-23 / XM-207)
    XM177E2

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  13. #39
    50 CAL FrommerStop's Avatar
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    Sawman there can be all sorts of explanations for shooting down a passenger plane. First look at the competence of those doing the shooting down and also their mental state. I know that when Iranians were trained at NAS and other military bases during the time of the Shah their reputation for competence was very low. They were also highly excited and likely trigger happy.
    But as you say there could be other hidden reasons that the world public will never learn. Likely US or Israeli intelligence would know, but have no reason to share. I recall two instances of non-military planes being apparently brought down. The two I can think was Dag Hammarskjöld, UN secretary general and President Samora Machel, pesident of Mozambique. Marchel's plane crashed in South Africa on landing approach to Maputo, Mozambique. There is still debate on the Mozambican crash of whether it was an accident or did the following occur.
    While there was widespread suspicion that the apartheid-regime of South Africa was involved in the crash, no conclusive evidence has emerged.

  14. #40
    50 CAL FrommerStop's Avatar
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    Recommended reading from Congressman Gaetz from his recent email

    Iran’s attack on Iraq shows how precise missiles have become
    It scored a series of bullseyes

    Science and technology
    Jan 16th 2020 edition https://www.economist.com/science-an...es-have-become


    Jan 16th 2020

    SATELLITE PHOTOGRAPHS of Ain al-Asad, an air base in western Iraq currently used by American forces, showed the aftermath of an Iranian ballistic-missile strike on January 8th. They were pictures of precision. Iran had struck at the heart of the sprawling base, in an area packed with planes, helicopters and buildings. The precision, however, was paradoxical. The missiles scored six direct hits, but against evacuated aircraft hangars. This, presumably, was enough retaliation for honour’s sake after an American air-to-surface missile had killed Qassem Suleimani, a prominent Iranian general, five days earlier, without being sufficient to provoke counter-retaliation. “The most important takeaway from Iran’s strike is just how precise their short-range ballistic missiles were,” says Vipin Narang of the Massachusetts Institute of Technology. “The accuracy revolution is real and no longer a monopoly of the United States. This has huge implications for modern conflict.”

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