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  • FrommerStop

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    Quite frankly, I stick with night sights or even standard non-illuminated sights. At close range confrontations, aiming is not always possible. I have practiced enough point shooting that I do not have to rely on sights even out to 25 yards to hit my target. Center ass is not hard to do. Head shots are a little more challenging and may require some aiming. If someone is into speed shooting, I can see the purpose for using a red-dot optic. I do not see the point in using a laser. If you can see what you are pointing at, why would you need one?

    Be aware that at night very bright night sights can reveal your position if you do not shield them say with your hands.

    night sights.jpg


    JonathanNobody
    Unknown to me until I had that 1911 in position SUL was how bright those night sights were. I can still remember seeing them light up the front of my body armor as the 1911 was resting in my had. I could distinctly see my colleague's 1911 next to me and we both could see each other's face. Our faces showed surpried and the "oh f___" factor as we hope the two bodies carrying AK47s coming toward us couln't see the radiating tritium night sights that gave away our position.
     

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    donr101395

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    The holosun seems to use the same slide mill cut and screw pattern and I see the SI people that were one of groups early on pushing combat RDS are sort of saying they will deal with the holosun, but the RMR still seems to be the preferred. I am hoping the competition with the holosun will make the other slide mounted RDS companies lower their pricing.
    The RDS are more for precision shooting in my opinion. Not really needed at bad breath distances.


    I taught for Gabe from 2010 until 2014 when we had a parting of the ways. I was one of his top five earners for the company every year back when he had 35+ instructors. I don't always agree with him, but one thing I did like about working for him was early adoption and pushing the envelope on gear and equipment. Unfortunately, it turned into a fetish for him and I could no longer support the way he treated good customers questioning his methods of marketing and customer service. That said he always treated me fairly until we split and that contract job led me to my current one.
     

    FrommerStop

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    I taught for Gabe from 2010 until 2014 when we had a parting of the ways. I was one of his top five earners for the company every year back when he had 35+ instructors. I don't always agree with him, but one thing I did like about working for him was early adoption and pushing the envelope on gear and equipment. Unfortunately, it turned into a fetish for him and I could no longer support the way he treated good customers questioning his methods of marketing and customer service. That said he always treated me fairly until we split and that contract job led me to my current one.
    One problem I have is the fetish too. He does look for novel things, but not everything is always the best choice. But I will not go further into that here.
     

    donr101395

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    One problem I have is the fetish too. He does look for novel things, but not everything is always the best choice. But I will not go further into that here.
    Yep, I know what you mean.

    Sent from my moto g(7) using Tapatalk
     

    Gas Port

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    I am starting to shoot a red dot in competition and I would not mind using it on an EDC but my problem is I cannot see the dot without corrective lenses. I am sort of in JJ's group of learning point shooting and using irons for distance.
     

    FLT

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    I think what ever method you use , practice will make you better. If I were younger I’d most likely try the red dots but at my age the only reason I can imagine having to shoot someone would be to get them off me. In that case they’d have powder burns. It’s pretty hard to miss when they are that close.
     

    oneshot

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    Don't worrier about your night sight giving you away It want last that long . if it does it want matter, call the
    A-Hog he will clear the way. And if you have a good night sight It can't be seen from the front are side.
     
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    donr101395

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    Be aware that at night very bright night sights can reveal your position if you do not shield them say with your hands.

    View attachment 79260


    JonathanNobody
    Not a fan of night sights, but worrying about them giving away my position is on the list right below remembering to rack my shot gun.

    Since I know it's going to come up. I'm not a fan because there time of usefulness is a very small window. If it's too dark to see my sights it's too dark to PID my target so I need a light which gives me more than enough splash to see my sights. If I can see my sights I can PID my target and don't need tritium. The only time I can think of when this doesn't ring true is if I am going to ambush someone from a dark room while they are in a lighted space. I'm willing to do without for those reasons.

    Sent from my moto g(7) using Tapatalk
     

    FrommerStop

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    So I recently did some scenario training with simunitions. In one scenario I confronted a “violent subject” who was hiding a hand behind his back. Background was clear. I drew my gun and was at the “low ready” while giving him commands to show me his hands. (low ready with a pistol in a firing grip/stance, but gun is dropped out of my line of sight but still pointed at my threat). He brought his hand from around his back aggressively and quickly with a gun in it, and was bringing it up to point at me. From low ready I began firing rounds, basically doing a ladder drill from his pelvis up to his upper chest until the gun was in my line of sight. Soon as the gun was in my line of sight, I had a sight picture, and made a quick transition to a slightly more carefully aimed cranial vault shot. From first shot at low ready to my final aimed shot at the face was less than 2 seconds, and in that time I had fired 8 rounds including 2 to the head, all hits, at a distance of around 7 yards.

    Long story short; if you practice seeing and using your sights, then your more likely to see and use them under stress. These are fundamental skills for all types of shooting, not just competition.



    Deadly Threat Defense LLC
    Firearms Training near Pensacola, FL

    You might also consider getting off the X. The most important thing in a gun fight is not shooting the your opponent, but not getting yourself shot.
     

    FrommerStop

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    There was some movement, but when your that close, a good offense beats defense IMHO. It’s a statistical fact that the person to land the first hit in the gunfight is likely to be the one to walk away. Dynamic movement instead of fast, accurate hits would not have been appropriate. As distance increases or the longer your reaction is likely to be, the more important movement is.

    You do you though, although I’d highly recommend testing what you read on the Internet in force-on-force scenarios

    Deadly Threat Defense LLC
    Firearms Training near Pensacola, FL
    I am not going to press this. I guess you are not a big fan of force on force training.
     

    FrommerStop

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    Here is a video on the subject by Aaron Cowan, an Instructor I’ve actually trained with. He’s also a very good source of info on RDS on a pistol.

    https://youtu.be/RgScSejQ9yM

    Getting your info from the Internet is not inherently bad, but try to vet the source, and test the principles yourself in your own training as much as possible. Understand the context in which the skill is used. Take training classes from multiple different vetted Instructors. Run drills in dry fire and live fire drills with a timer. Try it in FoF if you have the means.


    Deadly Threat Defense LLC
    Firearms Training near Pensacola, FL

    Thank you
     

    Big Shrek

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    Absolutely it will let you do that, but the intimidation factor is internet folk lore. Much like racking a shotgun will scare them away. I'm not anti-laser by any means. My G26 has a light and laser. They have their uses, but they aren't a substitute for solid fundamentals which too many want to use them to do.

    Sent from my moto g(7) using Tapatalk

    Racking a shotgun will most certainly scare someone away.

    Had a guy climbing thru the downed trees towards my house two nights after Ivan hit...after I racked it, he stopped moving, and then I hollered that he might wanna go back where he came from. He climbed out faster than he went in, heard him running down the street after he got outta the trees. He never saw me, and I never saw him. Most folks will stop & question what they are doing when they hear that CHAK CHAK...the ones in a logical frame of mind will beat feet...the druggies or determined killers that pay it no mind, will have to be shot.
     
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    donr101395

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    Racking a shotgun will most certainly scare someone away.

    Had a guy climbing thru the downed trees towards my house two nights after Ivan hit...after I racked it, he stopped moving, and then I hollered that he might wanna go back where he came from. He climbed out faster than he went in, heard him running down the street after he got outta the trees. He never saw me, and I never saw him. Most folks will stop & question what they are doing when they hear that CHAK CHAK...the ones in a logical frame of mind will beat feet...the druggies or determined killers that pay it no mind, will have to be shot.
    Cool story

    Sent from my moto g(7) using Tapatalk
     

    FrommerStop

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    Quote Originally Posted by Big Shrek View Post
    Racking a shotgun will most certainly scare someone away.

    Had a guy climbing thru the downed trees towards my house two nights after Ivan hit...after I racked it, he stopped moving, and then I hollered that he might wanna go back where he came from. He climbed out faster than he went in, heard him running down the street after he got outta the trees. He never saw me, and I never saw him. Most folks will stop & question what they are doing when they hear that CHAK CHAK...the ones in a logical frame of mind will beat feet...the druggies or determined killers that pay it no mind, will have to be shot.
    Cool story

    Sent from my moto g(7) using Tapatalk

    It is not a sound that anyone really wants to hear.
     

    wildrider666

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    I'd rather keep the shotgun topped off, than plan/hope for a favorable result from racking noise. Your also counting on the "creeper" hearing the sound and recognizing it. Your intent for racking the shotgun is a "show of Force", if there's "unseen creepers" (could be anyone with any purpose that got them there) in the bush, how would you justify that action in Court? Which supports you in a use of lethal force case better: Racking a shotgun or giving a verbal warning? I also prefer to not carry a shotgun with an empty chamber, when there's a high probability of using it defensively.

    Defensively, Condition Three (empty chamber) with a handgun is just as bad. Don't we subconsciously laugh at TV/movie actors that show up for the gunfight AND then rack a cartridge into the chamber? YMMV.
     

    FrommerStop

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    Btw, I apologize for me calling you out in an earlier post. I don’t know you and you don’t know me. We don’t agree on some things, but that don’t mean I know more than you or that you know more than me. You weren’t even trying to argue anymore but I pressed on anyway, and that’s bad character on my part. So again, I’m sorry


    Deadly Threat Defense LLC
    Firearms Training near Pensacola, FL

    I do not feel called out and really it is counterproductive to try and change a strongly held view of someone. My thinking is I will often mention and if people ask more I will explain something but not push. I really do not care so much and wish to be polite.
    Getting off the x as used in close combat has been around likely since before we were modern men when someone dodged a punch and gunfighters have used it for years. I have only used it in sparing matchs where I side stepped an opponents attack.
    I became aware of it for gunfighting about 2006 from Gabe Suarez.
    His story as I recall it. He was answering a call about a convenience story robbery just a little bit outside of LA. Probably was at night. He and the gang banger just about literally ran into each other. Both had guns out and fired at the same time. He had taught martial arts and can move. With out thinking as they both fired, he fire as he moved to the side. The bullet meant for him missed and he killed the gang banger. In his opinion if he had stayed where he was, both of them would have been shot. This discussion involves reseting your opponent's what is called the OODA loop, observe, orient, decide, act. I do not really expect to convince someone and so that is why I just said thank you.
    G Suarez killed enough people along with an attitude that he was not liked by those above him that came back to bite him very hard.
    Currently he is a very hard businessman and has a offended a lot of people. But that does not detract from his most basic training techniques. I do not care if you are an SOB or what ever, if I can learn something important, I will listen.
    If you see his training video on close range fighting, he is phenomenally fast in movement.
    Cops like him that do a lot killing are often not liked by those above. I know one locally that has been retired for a few years now that killed two up in cantonment area that I will call G. A certain Capt that lives on Bayou Grande that may be retired now told me that they where not going let him be a departmental sniper. He did multiple tours in vietnam and could shoot.
    A lot of that has maybe changed and maybe LEOs are getting more support when forced to defend themselves.
     
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    FrommerStop

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    I'd rather keep the shotgun topped off, than plan/hope for a favorable result from racking noise. Your also counting on the "creeper" hearing the sound and recognizing it. Your intent for racking the shotgun is a "show of Force", if there's "unseen creepers" (could be anyone with any purpose that got them there) in the bush, how would you justify that action in Court? Which supports you in a use of lethal force case better: Racking a shotgun or giving a verbal warning? I also prefer to not carry a shotgun with an empty chamber, when there's a high probability of using it defensively.

    Defensively, Condition Three (empty chamber) with a handgun is just as bad. Don't we subconsciously laugh at TV/movie actors that show up for the gunfight AND then rack a cartridge into the chamber? YMMV.

    I do not like racking a shotgun, rifle, or pistol as described since if I confront someone racking the gun could result in a jam or other malfunction. If the goblin is armed he might shoot in the direction of sound. At most maybe the safety will be on. Depending on the circumstances I may or may not give warning or maybe even flee. I like stealth, cover, and ambush when possible.
     

    Big Shrek

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    I'd rather keep the shotgun topped off, than plan/hope for a favorable result from racking noise. Your also counting on the "creeper" hearing the sound and recognizing it. Your intent for racking the shotgun is a "show of Force", if there's "unseen creepers" (could be anyone with any purpose that got them there) in the bush, how would you justify that action in Court? Which supports you in a use of lethal force case better: Racking a shotgun or giving a verbal warning? I also prefer to not carry a shotgun with an empty chamber, when there's a high probability of using it defensively.

    Defensively, Condition Three (empty chamber) with a handgun is just as bad. Don't we subconsciously laugh at TV/movie actors that show up for the gunfight AND then rack a cartridge into the chamber? YMMV.

    Heck, it's worse than that, mine was completely unloaded. Back then we left 'em unloaded in the gun rack in the closet with a condom on the end of the barrel to keep dust out. Didn't even get it loaded until after I heard him beating feet away...ammo was in a .50-cal ammo can in the other side of the closet.

    Nowadays we have rapid-entry safes to keep the guns locked up while ready to go. With kids in the house, if it ain't being carried, they're locked down. Gotta be safe :)
     
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