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  • FrommerStop

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pompnewbie View Post
    Hmm yeah if that's the case they should shut that crap down.. you want to own a gun.. become a citizen


    Sent from my moto e5 cruise using Tapatalk
    Then you would prevent millions of permanent residents like me, who've been in this country 25 yrs from being able to protect ourselves, our families and anyone else from the wolves, try not to knee jerk like a Democrat would, just because you're not a Citizen, doesn't make you ant less of Patriot.

    Sent from my SM-G920T using Tapatalk
    The two things that are wrong and gun buying by non-citizens that are legally here is not one of them.

    Civilian and also military personnel on Base should be allowed CCW
    Certain 'guests' should be vetted and watched more than they are.

    By the way some of these people are allowed to fly planes. think what a plane could do if it was crashed into a school.
     

    MAXman

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    idk maybe my view is skewed because I’ve worked with solid dudes from foreign militaries, spent extended periods of time in foreign countries as a guest, and have seen trained professional warriors manage to shoot themselves in the knee with a condition 3 weapon...

    There’s a lot of layers and moving parts going on here.
    We don’t know why his classmates have ran. I wouldn’t be surprised at all if a couple of those unaccounted for tried to beat feet back home or are trying to lay low because they weren’t involved, but figured they’d be guilty by association and don’t wanna end up in gitmo.
    And frankly, we don’t know why mustache did what he did. We do know he was failing out of the course, which idk man I’ve failed courses before and I’ve never shot anyone... and he wrote a “I hate America”note, but as some here have stated could just be a “let’s win some martyr points since I can’t fly for shit and im a family shame”.

    But we prepare for the worse, so there’s also potentially (what, 10 now?) more gunmen running around, very likely in our area.

    As far as vetting guest trainees, what non-citizens can buy firearms, issuing carry pieces to all military members .. Again, a lot of layers and moving parts. I know warning signs were missed, fail safes failed and number of worse case aligned to allow this to happen. It’s never just one “ah, shit” it’s always a string. But many of us don’t know what we don’t know, so for now I’ll wait and see, try to piece it together with what’s released through the news.

    But again, until then, we still have unaccounted for individuals who very well may be armed and may be out to make a statement. Probably still in our area. So everyone watch your asses and watch your people. Try to be safe out there.
     

    stage20

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    Then you would prevent millions of permanent residents like me, who've been in this country 25 yrs from being able to protect ourselves, our families and anyone else from the wolves, try not to knee jerk like a Democrat would, just because you're not a Citizen, doesn't make you ant less of Patriot.

    Sent from my SM-G920T using Tapatalk

    I'm ignorant on the subject but why haven't you become a citizen after all this time?
     

    FrommerStop

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    I'm ignorant on the subject but why haven't you become a citizen after all this time?

    Is there any strong reason why someone should become an american citizen. Why ask such a question? Many people in many lands work and then retire to their countries of origin. As long as all legalities are observed I can see nothing wrong with it.
     

    no woryz

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    I'm ignorant on the subject but why haven't you become a citizen after all this time?

    I am wondering the same. Don't know about calling a non-citizen a patriot, you may be passionate about protecting what you have but if your not a U.S. citizen then its fair to think your loyalties lie elsewhere....
     

    Snake-Eyes

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    Follow-on info from today:

    FBI news conference said all foreign personnel are accounted for. Whether they are local or not wasn't discussed, but they said the base and leadership have 100% accountability on the whereabouts. Also, the local Saudi "commander" has all of them restricted to base.

    No confirmations/denials about students filming it, and no arrests have been made. (Yet?)

    One of the other reps said he heard the rumors of possible follow-on events, etc, and he squashed it by saying although he can't speak to specifics, based on all of the sources and inputs he has, he would have zero concerns with his own family going about their normal activities in the community.
     

    Snake-Eyes

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    Is there any strong reason why someone should become an american citizen. Why ask such a question? Many people in many lands work and then retire to their countries of origin. As long as all legalities are observed I can see nothing wrong with it.

    One "strong reason" is if you live here for 25-plus years and then seem to have a concern about not having the same rights/privileges of a Citizen.

    If you're here to work and then retire somewhere else, then that is your life plan and decision. There are trade-offs to every choice we make. Welcome to the grind.

    As for the comments about patriotism, well, I also don't believe in the "dual-citizenship" BULLSHIT.
    There is a Priority list in your brain. The allegiance at the top will supersede the next one down. You are a Citizen of ONE nation. You can be a global traveler and economic juggernaut all you want, but you put your allegiance down for one nation. If you don't like it, then work to change it.

    I have no problem with legal visitors or permanent non-residents, as long as the understanding is clear that they still have one foot out-the-door in another country, so don't expect me to extend the same benefits as a bonafide US Citizen.
     

    mtbbrewer74

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    They say he purchased the gun legally. Does anybody know how? I was of the mindset that you had to be a citizen.

    Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk
     

    Ben Ghazi

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    they claim you can buy a gun with a hunting license and so he bought a hunting license ....
     

    Snake-Eyes

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    They say he purchased the gun legally. Does anybody know how? I was of the mindset that you had to be a citizen.

    Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

    From page four of this thread:

    Direct from the ATF website

    Q1. Who is a nonimmigrant alien?
    A1. Generally, “nonimmigrant aliens” are tourists, students, business travelers, and temporaryworkers who enter the U.S. for fixed periods of time; they are lawfully admitted aliens who arenot lawful permanent residents. In order to meet the definition of a nonimmigrant alien, theindividual MUST hold a nonimmigrant visa. The definition does NOT include permanentresident aliens, aliens legally admitted to the U.S. with a visa other than a nonimmigrant visa, oraliens legally admitted to the U.S. without a visa.

    Q3. May a nonimmigrant alien who has been admitted to the United States under a
    nonimmigrant alien visa purchase or possess a firearm in the U.S.?
    A3. An alien admitted to the United States under a nonimmigrant visa is not prohibited from
    purchasing, receiving, or possessing a firearm if the alien falls within one of the following
    exceptions: (1) is in possession of a hunting license or permit lawfully issued by the Federal
    Government, a State, or local government, or an Indian tribe federally recognized by the Bureau
    of Indian Affairs, which is valid and unexpired; (2) was admitted to the United States for lawful
    hunting or sporting purposes; (3) has received a waiver from the prohibition from the Attorney
    General of the United States; (4) is an official representative of a foreign government who is
    accredited to the United States Government or the Government’s mission to an international
    organization having its headquarters in the United States; (5) is en route to or from another
    country to which that alien is accredited; (6) is an official of a foreign government or a
    distinguished foreign visitor who has been so designated by the Department of State; or (7) is a
    foreign law enforcement officer of a friendly foreign government entering the United States on
    official law enforcement business.
     

    FrommerStop

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    One "strong reason" is if you live here for 25-plus years and then seem to have a concern about not having the same rights/privileges of a Citizen.

    If you're here to work and then retire somewhere else, then that is your life plan and decision. There are trade-offs to every choice we make. Welcome to the grind.

    As for the comments about patriotism, well, I also don't believe in the "dual-citizenship" BULLSHIT.
    There is a Priority list in your brain. The allegiance at the top will supersede the next one down. You are a Citizen of ONE nation. You can be a global traveler and economic juggernaut all you want, but you put your allegiance down for one nation. If you don't like it, then work to change it.

    I have no problem with legal visitors or permanent non-residents, as long as the understanding is clear that they still have one foot out-the-door in another country, so don't expect me to extend the same benefits as a bonafide US Citizen.

    This man was never a citizen and yet identified with the ideas of what is today american. Is he a disloyal jerk because he retained French citizenship.

    Gilbert_du_Motier_Marquis_de_Lafayette.PNG



    Marie-Joseph Paul Yves Roch Gilbert du Motier, Marquis de Lafayette (6 September 1757 – 20 May 1834), known in the United States simply as Lafayette, was a French aristocrat and military officer who fought in the American Revolutionary War, commanding American troops in several battles, including the Siege of Yorktown.
    Rank‎: ‎Major general (U.S.); Lieutenant general ..
     

    no woryz

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    This man was never a citizen and yet identified with the ideas of what is today american. Is he a disloyal jerk because he retained French citizenship.

    Gilbert_du_Motier_Marquis_de_Lafayette.PNG

    well, he is French...so......

    a great apples to oranges comparison.... your using a French officer who led Americans in battle against their dire enemy the English.... if Frenchie had lost he'd gone right back home to France so thanks for proving the point a few of us had made about prior loyalties.
     

    Pompnewbie

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    Then you would prevent millions of permanent residents like me, who've been in this country 25 yrs from being able to protect ourselves, our families and anyone else from the wolves, try not to knee jerk like a Democrat would, just because you're not a Citizen, doesn't make you ant less of Patriot.

    Sent from my SM-G920T using Tapatalk

    This may not come out right, and possibly piss off some people.. is so I apologize in advance.
    However I feel this illustrates a common failure in this country.. Years ago people wanted to have a better life, and enjoy all that becoming a citizen stood for.
    Now ? why bother if everyone is given all the same rights, and benefits as citizens anyway without having to go through all the red tape and BS.
    Food stamps, drivers licenses, owning property, gun rights.. etc
    So yeah I guess being a Citizen of this country, and having served in the Military I think anyone who is not a citizen should not have all the same benefits of someone that does.
    I know I am not well versed or a world traveler, but I think you would be hard pressed to name another country that would do that.
    I can just see going to Mexico, Russia, China, N Korea, or just about anywhere else, and telling them I want to purchase land, a gun, and be treated just like one of their citizens.
    Just my .02
     

    Jpyritz

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    This may not come out right, and possibly piss off some people.. is so I apologize in advance.
    However I feel this illustrates a common failure in this country.. Years ago people wanted to have a better life, and enjoy all that becoming a citizen stood for.
    Now ? why bother if everyone is given all the same rights, and benefits as citizens anyway without having to go through all the red tape and BS.
    Food stamps, drivers licenses, owning property, gun rights.. etc
    So yeah I guess being a Citizen of this country, and having served in the Military I think anyone who is not a citizen should not have all the same benefits of someone that does.
    I know I am not well versed or a world traveler, but I think you would be hard pressed to name another country that would do that.
    I can just see going to Mexico, Russia, China, N Korea, or just about anywhere else, and telling them I want to purchase land, a gun, and be treated just like one of their citizens.
    Just my .02

    What he said
     

    skippyt

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    One "strong reason" is if you live here for 25-plus years and then seem to have a concern about not having the same rights/privileges of a Citizen.


    The rights we are talking about are not exclusive to just citizens, and when you think about it, how many "citizens" have committed atrocious crimes against other citizens here, including mass shootings I certainly haven't, therefore, should not be tared with the same brush, my reasons for not becoming a citizen are a matter of honor, a mans word, however, those that know me understand, I would be ready, willing and able to do whatever was needed for this country should they call upon pissed of old age fat men that can still shoot straight.

    Again, this is not about me as an individual, simply responding to a blanket statement that was made by another individual
     

    Little Jack

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    Should the Bill of Rights only apply to US Citizens? Does the Bill of Rights grant the rights listed?

    Which rights should non citizens be allowed to exercise?

    I'll preempt some replies here by arguing that there's a distinct difference between gov provided services(voting, ID, welfare, foodstamps etc) and exercising one's rights.
     

    Telum Pisces

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    Should the Bill of Rights only apply to US Citizens? Does the Bill of Rights grant the rights listed?

    Which rights should non citizens be allowed to exercise?

    I'll preempt some replies here by arguing that there's a distinct difference between gov provided services(voting, ID, welfare, foodstamps etc) and exercising one's rights.

    I am asking because I don't know and you might! How can a foreign national legally purchase a handgun in the US?

    From the FBI:

    "Rojas also disclosed that Alshamrani had legally purchased a Glock 9-mm. handgun that was used in the attack, but did not go into specifics, citing the ongoing investigation"

    I did find this chart/page:

    https://www.fbi.gov/file-repository/ffl-tip-sheet-for-non-u-s-citizens-purchasing-firearms.pdf/view
     

    Little Jack

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    I am asking because I don't know and you might! How can a foreign national legally purchase a handgun in the US?

    From the FBI:

    "Rojas also disclosed that Alshamrani had legally purchased a Glock 9-mm. handgun that was used in the attack, but did not go into specifics, citing the ongoing investigation"

    I did find this chart/page:

    https://www.fbi.gov/file-repository/ffl-tip-sheet-for-non-u-s-citizens-purchasing-firearms.pdf/view

    Previous entry and your flow chart cover it. Provided the correct status and documentation, non citizens may buy a firearm. FDLE firearms purchase program has an option/process for non citizens.
     
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