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Active Shooter on NAS Pensacola 6 Dec 2019

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  • FrommerStop

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    People keep questioning us training foreigners. If we are selling billions of dollars worth of weapons, someone needs to train the foreign personnel on how to use the weapons. A few deaths due to poor vetting and monitoring vs huge profits and also keeping allies on our side, well do the math. See headline below. The training must continue and the security is fixable relative to shootings. I would like to see any equipment that such pilots fly equipped with a fail-safe detonator that will blow them out of the sky if the pilot goes rogue.
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    US Arms Sales Overseas Skyrocketed 33% in 2018 | The ...
    https://www.dsca.mil › news-media › news-archive › us-arms-sales-oversea...
    AUSA CONFERENCE: The United States sold $55.6 billion worth of weapons to allies in fiscal 2018, a massive 33 percent increase over 2017 as the Trump
     

    Stagman

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    People keep questioning us training foreigners. If we are selling billions of dollars worth of weapons, someone needs to train the foreign personnel on how to use the weapons. A few deaths due to poor vetting and monitoring vs huge profits and also keeping allies on our side, well do the math. See headline below. The training must continue and the security is fixable relative to shootings. I would like to see any equipment that such pilots fly equipped with a fail-safe detonator that will blow them out of the sky if the pilot goes rogue.

    They could eventually use the weapons we are selling them against us, but that's a win win situation for weapons manufacturers. Continue to pump out weapons for profit and arm the enemy so we can go to war and sell more weapons, sounds familiar. Military Industrial Complex.
     

    FrommerStop

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    They could eventually use the weapons we are selling them against us, but that's a win win situation for weapons manufacturers. Continue to pump out weapons for profit and arm the enemy so we can go to war and sell more weapons, sounds familiar. Military Industrial Complex.
    That has happened more than once to us and many others. Once the weapons are sold we do lose some control over them. If they are simple and do not need complicate maintenance/ parts we have no control. Advanced fighter craft will likely need parts from us to stay operational. But alternative sourcing may be possible as in the case french jet fighters. During one of the middle eastern wars the Israelis were selling spare mirage jet parts I think to the Iranians so they could kill Iraqis.
    IIRC we sold portable ground to air rockets to people that ended up as our enemies. American artillery given to the nationalist chinese were captured by the red chinese and sent to the Viets that used them blast the French at Dien Bien Phu. I have a Soviet produced mosin under my control without oversight from anyone along with an Egyptian weapon.
     

    Snake-Eyes

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    If my enemy is gonna use a weapon, I'd like to be the one who made it. I get paid and make a profit. I know exactly how it was made, and I know every weakness in that weapon. Strategic advantage with an economic bonus. "Military Industrial Complex" doesn't force them to pull a trigger.

    Speaking of triggers:
    https://www.foxnews.com/us/pensacola-naval-instructor-porn-stash

    Apparently the murdering coward was called "Porn stash" once by one of the contractor instructors, because of that thing under his nose. The thin-skinned piece-of-garbage was so infuriated that he filed a complaint with follow-up meetings. Now, we're talking about military training. If you are so emotionally WEAK that a mere comment can send you off-track, there is NO WAY you should be operating fast-paced technologically-advanced military vehicles. THAT character-reveal should've been a warning-sign to the NAS instructor cadre that this individual wasn't mentally strong enough to proceed in training.

    Rot in hell, "Porn stash"!!!


    Edit to add: I agree that it really should be spelled "Porn-stache", but that's how the article was written, and you get the meaning.
     
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    OldMan

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    The concept of "dual"-citizenship is inherently flawed. You can't have EQUAL allegiance to more than one Nation. If you incorrectly believe you do, then ask yourself: if both of the countries were in a war against each other tomorrow, which citizenship would you prefer to revoke?
    The follow-on challenge would be: then why haven't you already?
    The answer to that second question will reveal probably more about the person than they would care to admit in public.

    I don't care enough about strangers to ask. Once someone tells me they have "dual-citizenship", then I know that the concept of being a Citizen is either not important to them, or they have personal priorities not in-line with mine.

    I honestly believe it must be a civilian mindset. Someone who never served in the military might mistake the term "Citizen" as just a label, right? A tax category or a drop-down menu selection on a government form?

    To those of us who did serve, to be a Citizen of a Nation, especially one as special as the United States, is a solemn declaration. In a time of war, that's the side you're on. If you betray your Nation, you are a Traitor. If someone attacks your Nation, they are Your Enemy. The flag of that Nation flies over your bases/headquarters/homes to show that they are still secure, it marks the vehicles of your battlefield salvation, it adorns the uniforms of your brothers and sisters in arms, and one day it will cover your casket. You can only be on ONE side of that battlefield. You can only have ONE top-Priority allegiance when you face the test.

    As for the God-given rights delineated in our Constitution, I believe they apply to everyone. However, the US Citizen should never have fewer rights or more restrictions than a visitor, and any visitor who abuses our hospitality should suffer a harsher penalty. It's the principal of the matter: a houseguest should always be on its best behavior. If you will act so terribly in another's home, then you have no limit to your actions.

    The criminal coward who shot a bunch of unarmed innocents was a piece of shit. I don't care why he chose those actions, because I know them to be wrong. So did he. We just happen to be discussing his nationality and access to firearms because it's interesting, but it doesn't change the fact of who he was: a coward, and a criminal. No ID card, or visa, or hunting license, or background check would've changed the fact that he was a coward who could choose to be a murderous criminal.

    May he rot in Hell.

    Amen Brother from another...…….

    HANG ALL TRAITORS
     

    ccather

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    Why? The OP is about the shooting, the FBI Brief is about the shooting and that's getting back on topic instead of running dual citizenship into a derail of this topic and before a Mod needed to step in. Some can't take a hint and the Mod had to address it. Its my opinion on Special Agent Rojas, she did not exude confidence, YMMV. link is to the BRIEFING.

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=FOZeoZm2ECI

    Specifically how is the agent's confidence in a briefing relevant?
     

    ccather

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    People keep questioning us training foreigners. If we are selling billions of dollars worth of weapons, someone needs to train the foreign personnel on how to use the weapons. A few deaths due to poor vetting and monitoring vs huge profits and also keeping allies on our side, well do the math. See headline below. The training must continue and the security is fixable relative to shootings. I would like to see any equipment that such pilots fly equipped with a fail-safe detonator that will blow them out of the sky if the pilot goes rogue.

    "A few deaths" ? Are you sure you meant to say that?
     

    FrommerStop

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    "A few deaths" ? Are you sure you meant to say that?

    Yes I did. I am not saying it is morally right.
    I am putting like those in charge see it. A few deaths of someone else to people doing multibillion dollar deals is no big deal to them as long as they are not the ones that get killed. For those in international power politics there is the same reasoning. Of course they will never bluntly state it.
    There of many stories of such people setting up stupid scenarios and our service personnel and others get killed.

    It is not wake up and smell the roses, but more smell the blood and feces in the mud.

    The world is not a safe place.
     

    ccather

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    I better understand your point that the some of our leaders see individuals almost as inanimate objects to be used to achieve a goal. I asked the question because when I first read the post, it came across to me as if you held that view. Now I know better. Thanks
     

    ccather

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    Thank you guys to tolerating me over the past few days while I vented. I will be quiet now.
     
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    fl57caveman

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    Is there any strong reason why someone should become an american citizen. Why ask such a question? Many people in many lands work and then retire to their countries of origin. As long as all legalities are observed I can see nothing wrong with it.


    I was curious also, valid question in my mind
     

    MAXman

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    Thank you guys to tolerating me over the past few days while I vented. I will be quite now.

    Almost like this one hit close to home and touched on some strong opinions.
     

    Zeroed in

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    Should the Bill of Rights only apply to US Citizens?

    Yes, I Believe it should pertain only to US citizens, excluding Free Speech, unless they burn an American Flag. Flag burning should be a Federal Offense for Anyone regardless of citizenship status, and be removed from the language of free speech. To me it's not "speech", but an "Action".

    I am asking because I don't know and you might! How can a foreign national legally purchase a handgun in the US?

    From the FBI:

    "Rojas also disclosed that Alshamrani had legally purchased a Glock 9-mm. handgun that was used in the attack,


    They said the Loophole is with a Hunting License. That in itself is ludicrous, but what's more ludicrous is the IDIOT that sold him a fricking 9mm pistol for HUNTING. If they (ATF) will allow Non-Citizens to purchase firearms with just a hunting license, it should be limited to a non-removable 4-round mag or a single shot. But Never Ever a Handgun of any caliber.
     

    Fletch

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    Arguing vetted non-criminal foreign nationals with established residency in a state have no natural rights sort of pulls the rug out from underneath the founder's intent and erodes our own in my opinion. They were not giving rights they were acknowledging man's God given and/or natural rights. One of those being the right to self-defense.

    So in this new country those natural rights were going to be acknowledged and not be infringed upon. A foreign national has the exact same natural rights as any of us regardless if their country of home origin acknowledges them or not.

    In arguing against it we are essentially saying we don't have natural rights and government grants those rights versus acknowledges them and pledges not to infringe upon them. A very slippery slope if you ask me.

    It strikes me as a rather liberal argument to be focusing on where, why, and how he got the gun. Don't we always say evil will find a way regardless of laws on the books?

    I'm more angered that a Naval Academy graduate who was a small arms instructor and captain of the rifle team was not deemed responsible or trustworthy enough to carry a sidearm as the officer on deck that day. It's insane. He was on track to be put into the cockpit of a 50 million dollar cannon with wings one day yet stupid policy prevented him from having a sidearm.

    He obviously had the courage to fight and it's infuriating to me that he and others were not allowed to have a fighting chance when evil unfortunately came their way.
     

    FrommerStop

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    Fletch I am so pleased to read the thoughts of a true believer in the founding documents of our country and many of the others should read your remarks several times over and maybe they would learn something.
    Ill guided and poorly informed knee jerk patriotism is not the wisest path.
     
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