Modified creedmoor for the TAC-14

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  • FrommerStop

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    I prefer an AR-15. I carried both an AR and 870P for the past 11 years until very recently I sold my shotgun (I prefer to carry my personally owned weapons). I found the only time I ever pulled it out was for animal defense. SRCSO has both ARs (mix of old bushmasters and newer colts) and shotguns (mix of older 870s and newer 590s) for issue, and it’s the individual’s choice to take one or the other or both, or carry your personal. I personally have the somewhat unpopular opinion that shotguns are outdated for defensive use. I’m not walking into a potential gunfight with only 4-6 rounds in the mag, especially as a civilian with no secondary.

    Also most people’s fears of over-penetration is unfounded. It has more to do with bullet selection than caliber/platform. That said, for a shotgun, if your not using Federal flightcontrol, your wrong lol. 8 pellet OO

    Also if I were in the market for a defensive shotgun, it’d be a Berretta 1301

    Deadly Threat Defense LLC
    Firearms Training near Pensacola, FL

    Good answers and thanks. I am concerned relative to building materials and a bullet striking a house a mile away. The characteristics of 5.56 bullets relative to penetration are very velocity dependent. This is something that I need to learn more about.
    My newer ARs are in 6.5 and 30 cals that do penetrate better in materials. A 5.56 upper is easily obtained and might be safer to use in a populated area.
     

    FrommerStop

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    Personally I prefer a handgun for home defense. Allows me to have a hand free to open doors, flick light switches, control children, etc.


    Deadly Threat Defense LLC
    Firearms Training near Pensacola, FL

    The shotgun is for use outside of the house. I have an orchard on 8 acres and if the dogs tangle with something I have to go out and check it out. Normally I would use a handgun since it is out of sight when holstered and both hands are free. But there may be instances where a shoulder arm is necessary. The Tac-13 and 14 might be very good for inside a house. But then one has to invest the time in training with it. The other problem with the tube fed shotgun is that you must learn to reload it as you fire it. That is a skill set I am not willing to learn at the moment and normally if 5 rounds did not settle the issue I would transition to a handgun. Most scenarios in real life with the shotgun are over about the time the magazine is empty. One center torso hit is quite effective. But still the low capacity is an issue.
     

    SAWMAN

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    "Pistol grip . . . from the hip".
    Possibly should have been put under the "military sayings" thread but the above just made me think of it.
    IMO and some others from awhile back,pistol grip shotguns should be fired from the hip only. Full buttdtock from eye level even if you choose not to use the sights or even beed. ---SAWMAN
     

    FrommerStop

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    Heres the only "odd" one I ever do. Works for pistol and also standing.

    View attachment 77542

    If the above works for you that is good. Normally people try to support of the rear of the rifle also. What is the origin of the photo that you posted. The sling is also loose and not being used. Since I see a black and a white GI together it is probably not WWII and I wonder if it just from a movie. But I certainly would not knock it if what you do works for you. Me I need all of the help that I can get when shooting.
    Below is a proper sitting position. Note the position of the rear elbow that is supported by a knee.
    CrossLegged-18342.jpg

    with sticks
    CrossStick-17551.jpg
     

    FLT

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    I guess it could be , but that rifle doesn’t look right for that time frame.
     

    FrommerStop

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    Pretty sure that’s Carlos Hathcock, Marine Corps Vietnam legend


    Deadly Threat Defense LLC
    Firearms Training near Pensacola, FL
    Attachment 77542

    I checked google and that is him. But I suspect he is using to scope for viewing the area and he is not taking a 1,000 yard shot.
    Look at where the fingers are of his shooting hand. Does it look like he is taking a shot? It should be just his thumb over the tang area of the rifle. That is very heavy muzzle end rifle by the way with a lot scope and even some barrel wt on the front end.
    carlos hathcock.JPG

    There a strong tendency for people to imitate anything that they see a champion doing and often they do not understand the context of why that expert was doing that. It could be that Carlos H actually did shoot that way, but I am not Carlos Hathcock lol.
     

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    FLT

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    461CDA3A-5458-4291-BB35-1871D28EDA91.jpg according to google that is him and that's what the rifle looked like.
     

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    FrommerStop

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    I read Marine Sniper and the other associated books 15-20 years ago. He shot a Winchester model 70 if I remember right and was also instrumental to the M40 development later on. He competed at Camp Perry until late in life.


    Deadly Threat Defense LLC
    Firearms Training near Pensacola, FL

    Perhaps this is his rifle. I wonder how well he did at camp perry. There is an old joke among target shooters. Hunters can't shoot and target shooters do not hunt. It is not really true. i am referring to traditional bullseye sports and not action shooting sports. Many of champion shooters at Camp Perry could not have done what Hathcock did. With modern computerized equipment such feats are easier these days.

    9adf6bc4d6d844a253892e9a6a008478.jpg
     

    fl57caveman

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    His most legendary kill was when he shot an enemy sniper named “Cobra” who was hunting him because of the $30,000 bounty that the Viet Cong had placed on “White Feather.” Hathcock found a suitable position and waited for his enemy to show up.

    He saw a glint of light in the jungle foliage and squeezed the trigger of his Winchester Model 70 30-06 rifle. The kill was made without ever seeing his enemy and what is even more fascinating when he approached the fallen enemy he noticed that the bullet had passed through Cobra’s scope, traveled its length and entered into the enemy sniper’s eye.
     

    FrommerStop

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    His most legendary kill was when he shot an enemy sniper named “Cobra” who was hunting him because of the $30,000 bounty that the Viet Cong had placed on “White Feather.” Hathcock found a suitable position and waited for his enemy to show up.

    He saw a glint of light in the jungle foliage and squeezed the trigger of his Winchester Model 70 30-06 rifle. The kill was made without ever seeing his enemy and what is even more fascinating when he approached the fallen enemy he noticed that the bullet had passed through Cobra’s scope, traveled its length and entered into the enemy sniper’s eye.
    There was a story about russian WWII sniper Vasily Zaitsev in a duel with a german. Some dispute that it happened
    Zaytsev indicates in his own memoirs that a three-day duel did occur and that the sniper he killed was the head of a sniper school near Berlin.[citation needed][6]
    This is an article that claims it never happened. https://theweek.com/articles/444367/greatest-sniper-duel-history-myth
     
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    wildrider666

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    Vasily Zaitsev duel: I read thweek article but there's hole assumptions in that.
    The Author places great importance of the myth on the Germans Lines being "EAST", and Koning positioned "East". Stalingrad was surrounded by the Germans, it was a Siege, kill or be killed from any direction. If your the German Commander and suffering substantial officer and troop losses from snipers, wouldn't you bring some force to counter that when your assets can't eliminate it? Yery logical to fight fire with fire. German Sniper school didn't exist at the time? Maybe not a central formalized "School" but German Snipers were being trained somewhere and no doubt they fell under the responsibility of German Officers preferably with Sniper experience from WW1. Very similar to the early Marine Corps Snipers which were equipped and trained(+-) within battalions/regiments long before a Formal Central Marine Corps Sniper then Scout Sniper School was created.

    Documentation on German Sniper School. A lot of German secrets came to light AFTER the War and there is no question that more were destroyed as a direct result of combat action. No Record on Maj Koning and how many thousands of other German soldiers and officers? Many are only know through surviving Family and when entire cities get fire bombed, that severs a few links too. German too smart to let light reflect off scope, probably but happen stance may have caused a broken piece of glass, mirror, bare metal reflect: drawing Vasily's attention to the German? Shit happens. Theweek article makes no stronger argument that "it could be a myth" than my counter points that it is as Vasily stated. Date unclear? Hell, when I was a peon in the Bush I didn't track "dates"; only days to this or that and a Short Timers Calendar. Lol
     

    FrommerStop

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    Vasily Zaitsev duel: I read thweek article but there's hole assumptions in that.
    The Author places great importance of the myth on the Germans Lines being "EAST", and Koning positioned "East". Stalingrad was surrounded by the Germans, it was a Siege, kill or be killed from any direction. If your the German Commander and suffering substantial officer and troop losses from snipers, wouldn't you bring some force to counter that when your assets can't eliminate it? Yery logical to fight fire with fire. German Sniper school didn't exist at the time? Maybe not a central formalized "School" but German Snipers were being trained somewhere and no doubt they fell under the responsibility of German Officers preferably with Sniper experience from WW1. Very similar to the early Marine Corps Snipers which were equipped and trained(+-) within battalions/regiments long before a Formal Central Marine Corps Sniper then Scout Sniper School was created.

    Documentation on German Sniper School. A lot of German secrets came to light AFTER the War and there is no question that more were destroyed as a direct result of combat action. No Record on Maj Koning and how many thousands of other German soldiers and officers? Many are only know through surviving Family and when entire cities get fire bombed, that severs a few links too. German too smart to let light reflect off scope, probably but happen stance may have caused a broken piece of glass, mirror, bare metal reflect: drawing Vasily's attention to the German? Shit happens. Theweek article makes no stronger argument that "it could be a myth" than my counter points that it is as Vasily stated. Date unclear? Hell, when I was a peon in the Bush I didn't track "dates"; only days to this or that and a Short Timers Calendar. Lol

    I really do not know. Normally I would agree with you. In this case when dealing with the Soviets, they had quite a propaganda machine and so an invented or embellished story is possible and only Vasily and the few other witness that were there that are most likely dead for many years or in a nursing home are not around to comment on it.
     

    Rebel_Rider1969

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    I was wondering how long before somebody recognized the shooter in the photo.

    Re: Soviets seems like I read something that most of the snipers were women, and they were using 6.5 rifles. Early creedmore??? :)
     
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    FrommerStop

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    I was wondering how long before somebody recognized the shooter in the photo.

    Re: Soviets seems like I read something that most of the snipers were women, and they were using 6.5 rifles. Early creedmore??? :)
    The russians may of had some 6.5 arisakas around. Never heard of them being used for sniping, but it would be less recoil for a lady.
    two ladies with mosin nagants 7.62x54 The young girls might have .22 training rifles. I am not able to tell. Could be arisakas in 6.5 for all I can tell
    00-femsnip.jpg


    Lady at the bottom has 7.62x54 tokarev designed semiauto
    01-pavlichenko-snajper.jpg
     

    wildrider666

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    The Soviet Union really didn't care what they put in the meat grinder. However, they contributed to the effort and several with distinction like "Lady Death".
     

    FrommerStop

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    The Soviet Union really didn't care what they put in the meat grinder. However, they contributed to the effort and several with distinction like "Lady Death".

    But USSR lied like crazy about a lot of things. Well all governments do. For many years they did not want to give specific numbers for their number of dead. In some places it was said to be as high as one in three civilians dead in Belorussia. They lost a lot of men for sure.
    Jewish Virtual Library
    A Jewish Soviet Partisan is Hanged With two Others in Minsk Belorussia
    minskhanging.jpg
     

    donr101395

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    "Pistol grip . . . from the hip".
    Possibly should have been put under the "military sayings" thread but the above just made me think of it.
    IMO and some others from awhile back,pistol grip shotguns should be fired from the hip only. Full buttdtock from eye level even if you choose not to use the sights or even beed. ---SAWMAN


    Because sights are a design flaw.
     

    FrommerStop

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    Seems like the rifles were 6.5 sweed or 6.5 Romanian. Cant find it or remember. Lady Death did not like the svt40 but was made to swear she used it. Bosses and stuff.

    More, likely 6.5 Swede since Swedish rifles are known for accuracy and Sweden is not so far from Russian with just finland separating them. I know the russians did issue in limited number an assault rifle in 6.5 arisaka and they fought the Japanese in the far east starting from the early 1900's until the end of WWII and so had access to captured 6.5 rifles and ammunition.
    Fedorov Avtomat - Wikipedia

    Avtomat_M1916_Fedorov_noBG.jpg
     
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