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  • wildrider666

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    Is Home Defense and electronic hearing protection (especially at night) compatable. When our vision is restricted by darkness, our hearing becomes more attuned and in turn, our brains subconsciously focus closer upon that stimulus: background noise during the day become attention getters in the dark. This is not a bad thing, its just the way we're wired.

    In addition to structure construction, there's several acoustic factors involved in a shot(s); in a confined space/room, hallway. Though not louder; it is constrained and longer duration due to reflection and echo. At the same instant pressure/concussion is also more restricted. This is not grenade like overpressure but more than at an open range or indoor with distant walls. Obviously, results vary by caliber, shell, barrel length and muzzle device/porting if equipped: 9mm, .357mag, 5.56 AR pistol, full size or Shorty 12ga (light/full loads).

    The fall out question is: What are the situational Pro & Cons of donning quality electronic hearing protection (time permitting) before confirming a threat, after and multiple threats?

    Your thoughts?
     

    Jerry

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    That brings up a question I posed a couple years ago. How many people have discharged a firearm in a confined space, and Im not talking about a shooting house while hunting.
    The blast can be quite deafening, even almost debilitating. So necessary repeat shots could or would be delayed or possibly not on target.
    I have fired in an enclosed small room with without hearing protection and it wasn't pleasant. I now keep electronic hearing protection at my bedside, and in my office at home.
    I do not recommend firing in an enclosed/confined space just to see what its like. My experience was out of necessity.
     

    FrommerStop

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    The concern is even more pressing when guns more powerful than typical pistol cartridges are used.
     

    Big Shrek

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    Let's put it this way, Fire an AR pistol inside a house without protection,
    then spend the next few hours not being able to hear ANYTHING but ringing.
    Including the cops who will arrive later wanting you to DROP things...
    You won't hear them either...so bye-bye. Because ECSO is a bit trigger happy...
    fortunately, most don't spend much time at the range, so you might survive! ;)
    ( I wouldn't hold a LIGHTER either! LOL)

    An AR pistol fired inside a house is going to deafen EVERYONE that is not protected in it.
    So yeah, use the hearing protection.
    Active earmuffs. No kidding.
    Close yer kids door and have them put on muffs too.

    Don't believe me??
    Go to any indoor range & fire an AR pistol just using foam earplugs.
    After yer ears stop ringing, you'll be a believer!
     
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    wildrider666

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    I haven't convinced myself to keep Emuffs handy yet. Even with my heavily shot abused ears everything is much clearer without them and the acoustics sense of sound direction exists. With them on, the processing muffles/dulls non shot sounds: voices to brass hitting concrete. I can't hear lower tone voice/noise at distances that I can clearly hear them without the Emuffs.

    In my thought process it is extremely critical to hear, direction locate (+-) and evaluate every sound source BEFORE a trigger is pulled. The Emuffs I've use privatly and professionally can't deliver that. At the BANG(s) is where they pay off. The muffled/dull sounds are far better than ringing/dead ears (can be severe enough you can't hear anything/voices nor interact on a phone. I believe there is momentary sound/shock/mental disruption from going from dead silence to 140-175db with the unprotected ear. It things get drawn out in time by hide and seek or cover/conceal/ambush: the advantage goes back to the naked ear.

    Good Silencers only drop 30+- db which is benifical and provide compromise with a naked ear. Like a lot of us, if they become a over the counter item like in parts of Europe or no more difficult that a handgun purchase I'll jump in. I'm not going to plat NFA games at this late stage in my life. FWIW: If I were a young guy: I get one pistol and one rifle can in "permanent calibers" before I got in depth "collecting" firearms.
     

    Big Shrek

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    Advantage to naked ear UNTIL the first shot is fired...
    then the second guy could tap dance and sing behind you...
     

    wildrider666

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    Advantage to naked ear UNTIL the first shot is fired...
    then the second guy could tap dance and sing behind you...

    AR Probably, 9mm, 38 Spl not so much, its caliber/firearm dependent.

    Generally, your point has merit but therein lies the problem because alternatively: W/Emuffs you loose sounds, sound quality and sound direction and those missed cues could get you killed or incapacitated by the first shot.

    Lets put perspectives of First Shot(s). I don't think there's a standard for home defense gunfights but I think of them in two forms: quick and over, and protracted; the former being the most common. If BG(s) are there for material gain the norm is retreat at first shot(s) unless injured or trapped. Even if they tag the resident, its more likely they're going to haul ass due to the new higher criminal liability and before more witnesses observe them. The latter being determined BGs that extends his personal risk for some known big score or solo mentally fixated BG that continues the engagement potentially to the death.

    People have differen game plans and surely focus on locations of loved ones. Some can defend in place in a Safe Room. Others may need to Clear and Secure a hallway, stairs or multiple floors due to bedroom locations and that forces your movement and increases vulnerability.

    I also have a P556 ready to go but its not my primary, nor my Wifes. It's a situation dependent tool.
     

    IronBeard

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    That brings up a question I posed a couple years ago. How many people have discharged a firearm in a confined space, and Im not talking about a shooting house while hunting.
    The blast can be quite deafening, even almost debilitating. So necessary repeat shots could or would be delayed or possibly not on target.
    I have fired in an enclosed small room with without hearing protection and it wasn't pleasant. I now keep electronic hearing protection at my bedside, and in my office at home.
    I do not recommend firing in an enclosed/confined space just to see what its like. My experience was out of necessity.

    Uh-huh, and if the dusting hasn't been done for two weeks, or not at all, you'll be wondering what's up with your vision, too.
     

    FrankT

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    I doubt I will have time to put ears on in an emergency with a kicked in door or shots fired, especially when waking up...I will have a lot of holes to patch
     

    SAWMAN

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    My thoughts - - -> It takes time to find your ears,find the switch,turn it on,possibly adjust the volume level,put them on your head,etc. Remember also,when you find your cheek weld with any AR,the size (thickness,depth) of the head piece is critical. Some that I have,cannot be used with any AR and some other rifles that have a slight drop at the comb.
    What are you willing to trade for this ?? In this situation,time (in seconds and tenths of seconds) is critical. My total focus will be on "coming even" with the bad guy(s) that just woke me up. Mainly,completely ready to fire weapon,and awake type situational awareness. I will not spend ANY time on hearing protection,eye protection,plate carrier,or kevlar helmet.
    I want to come up to speed ASAP,to pull the trigger. I can always "ratchet down" a few notches as needed or the threat(s) changes. ---- SAWMAN
     

    FrommerStop

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    My thoughts - - -> It takes time to find your ears,find the switch,turn it on,possibly adjust the volume level,put them on your head,etc. Remember also,when you find your cheek weld with any AR,the size (thickness,depth) of the head piece is critical. Some that I have,cannot be used with any AR and some other rifles that have a slight drop at the comb.
    What are you willing to trade for this ?? In this situation,time (in seconds and tenths of seconds) is critical. My total focus will be on "coming even" with the bad guy(s) that just woke me up. Mainly,completely ready to fire weapon,and awake type situational awareness. I will not spend ANY time on hearing protection,eye protection,plate carrier,or kevlar helmet.
    I want to come up to speed ASAP,to pull the trigger. I can always "ratchet down" a few notches as needed or the threat(s) changes. ---- SAWMAN

    All very valid points. Me what I am trying to do is to teach myself to think in emergencies.
    In this situation,time (in seconds and tenths of seconds) is critical. My total focus will be on "coming even" with the bad guy(s)
    here is the way to do best in a gunfight. From bill jordan and Hopefully people here recognized the name:
    ‘If you get in a gunfight, don’t let yourself feel rushed. Take your time, fast.’” (Page 107)
    Earlier in the book, Bill remarked, “And above all, take all the time necessary but don’t dawdle. Remember, ‘speed’s fine, but accuracy’s final’—if you are given time to display it!” (Page 99)
    Essentially do not rush in or forward. It could be you wake up with a figure holding an ax looming over you in the bed, but in most cases you will be alerted to something that is not in your bedroom.
    If you have time while in the house take the ear protection along.
    If the problem is outside of the house do not go blundering outside without having thought it out. Might even be smarter to call to 911 and let those that get paid to risk their lives.
     

    wildrider666

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    Just going to mention there’s a huge difference in the audio quality between some Howard Leights and MSA Supreme Pro-x
    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

    I'm currently using Peltor Tactical 6S Model 97043. The units electronics limit amplified sounds to 82 dBA while active volume provides distortion free amplification of low-level sounds up to 19. Noise Reduction Rating: 19. The higher the NRR number, the higher level of protection.

    The MSA Sordin Supreme Pro X is 82dBA and NRR of 18. Reviews are good, I'll see it there's a local stocking Shop where I can try them.

    Sound suppression and amplification are measured but there's no scale of reference for clarity and distortion. If we use "perfect human hearing" as a generic baseline, it would still be a matter of personal perception.

    Here's how I check clairity/distortion. With the E/Muffs on, I listen to a music track that I know very well. You will know immediately what's sounds are spot on (I haven't found one yet), very close, average, poor or have gaps where nothing is picked up. Instrumentals with great range and repeating same "bar" sections and that bar section with "staff" (pitch or percussion" changes. Vocals primarily highlight the singer and of limited range. Your speaking voice (Test, Test, Test:Lol) is of no use as you hear it in your head as well as in your ears. That's why our recorded voice sounds different from our speaking voice, while they will be identical to another person.
     

    FrommerStop

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    Most electronic ear muffs are used to hear humans voices. Specifically range commands in my case. But for night creeping I am most interested in low frequency sounds like a foot scuffing the ground or a twig breaking. As to getting direction fixes and distance, I do not know if normal budget devices will cut it.
    What do elite combat personnel use?
     

    IronBeard

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    Most electronic ear muffs are used to hear humans voices. Specifically range commands in my case. But for night creeping I am most interested in low frequency sounds like a foot scuffing the ground or a twig breaking. As to getting direction fixes and distance, I do not know if normal budget devices will cut it.
    What do elite combat personnel use?

    "Specifically, SOCOM plans to purchase the Ops-Core AMP Communications Headset, Invisio X5 Headset and V60 PTT." This is the CASL system that is replacing the Peltors currently in use. It's nextgen, but I don't think you're gonna hear a mouse creeping up on ya. As others have said, this is designed so you have comms/hearing pro on the battlefield.
     
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    Zeroed in

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    In the "perfect" situation, you will have time to dial 911 and give pertinent info, don the hearing protection, arm yourself and prevail in the outcome. But in reality, you have seconds if not split seconds to make a decision during a home invasion. The possibility of getting tinnitus is a blessing compared to losing the life of family members or yourself while deciding on where you last put your muffs. The choice is yours.
    Also, if you do not grab your hearing protection every time you jump out of bed from hearing a bump in the night, you will most likely leave the muffs behind anyway.
     

    Snake-Eyes

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    Suppressed pistol within arms reach, holstered on a simple quick-buckle web-belt.
    Electronic ear-pro next to the sling-ready long gun of your choice, wherever it "lives".

    Adjust what you "wear" as time allows.
     

    SAWMAN

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    Kinda funny for me to see most of you guys attitude to a "most violent",middle of the night home invasion,akin to a IDPA,IPSC,SASS,or a WBSF match.
    Grab your ears,make sure you put on your eye protection,and make sure you slip into that 35lb plate carrier,call the cops and explain to the dispatcher at least twice where you live,how many BG's there are,are they armed,are you armed,what is their skin color,what colored clothing are they wearing,what automobile are they driving . . . then you are given the "Don't confront them. The police are on the way. Until then,take your family and hide in the closet" speech.
    You guys live in a dream world. Keep jerkin' yourself off and if a home invasion ever happens to you and your family . . . someone will die . . . or worse.
    Get your priorities straight. DAMN !! ---- SAWMAN
     

    Snake-Eyes

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    Kinda funny for me to see most of you guys attitude to a "most violent",middle of the night home invasion,akin to a IDPA,IPSC,SASS,or a WBSF match.
    Grab your ears,make sure you put on your eye protection,and make sure you slip into that 35lb plate carrier,call the cops and explain to the dispatcher at least twice where you live,how many BG's there are,are they armed,are you armed,what is their skin color,what colored clothing are they wearing,what automobile are they driving . . . then you are given the "Don't confront them. The police are on the way. Until then,take your family and hide in the closet" speech.
    You guys live in a dream world. Keep jerkin' yourself off and if a home invasion ever happens to you and your family . . . someone will die . . . or worse.
    Get your priorities straight. DAMN !! ---- SAWMAN

    Dude.

    "You guys live in a dream world. Keep jerkin' yourself off and if a home invasion ever happens to you and your family . . . someone will die . . . or worse."

    That's some JV-level "To Whom It May Concern" keyboard fury from you...

    Not a single person here advocates telling a midnight invader to "hold on a sec while I get dressed". These are steps in case you have TIME.

    To be more concise: Why WOULDN'T you take steps to protect yourself from harm, given the TIME?
    Those of us who still have hearing, and who have other people in the house, and animals we care about, don't want a single person or pet left with any lasting reminders from a home invader: other than memories of the vanquished.

    If I only have time to grab a gun, it has a suppressor, and it is out of the holster quite easily.
    If I have time to grab the gun AND the webbelt, they are clicked around my waist about as fast as my feet are securely under me after leaving the bed.
    If I have time to grab the long gun, great. Ear-pro is a bonus.
    By then, the wife is alert, armed, and controlling the hounds of hell.

    You bet your cynical/condescending ass "if a home invasion ever happens to [me or my] family . . . someone will die..."
    That would be the asshole(s) who invaded my home.
     
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