Didn't carry today...

FLT · Aug 26, 2019

This whole thing reminds me of something that was told to me as a young man , you can’t mess with scum without getting scum on you.

junker46 · Aug 26, 2019

John B. said:
He never would have had to draw his handgun had he minded his own business.

You can't only look at the moment of the shooting. Events leading up to it can possibly effect the outcome.

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I'm stepping delicately through this issue. However, what about the next time I see someone snatching their/a child around in Walmart? The next door neighbor abusing his dog again? Two people involved in an altercation, with one clearly on the downside? What now? Do I next some previous event to give me context if necessary to intervene?

John B. · Aug 26, 2019

junker46 said:
I'm stepping delicately through this issue. However, what about the next time I see someone snatching their/a child around in Walmart? The next door neighbor abusing his dog again? Two people involved in an altercation, with one clearly on the downside? What now? Do I next some previous event to give me context if necessary to intervene?

I'd suggest you mind your own business and you won't have to worry about it.

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John B. · Aug 26, 2019

Unfortunately a lot of folks with CCW are what I consider a "I wish a MFer would" guy... the person who wants to be the hero and looks for confrontation. IMO they are the most dangerous type of gun owner.

I absolutely do not want to ever use my gun in self defense. It is a last resort.

Some folks think it's the first option.
Don't be that person.

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junker46 · Aug 26, 2019

John B. said:
I'd suggest you mind your own business and you won't have to worry about it.

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Huh. I wonder how that plays out in other ways. Say you were on a jury of a somewhat similar situation, you'd convict someone of doing the 'right thing' or acting in a manor conducive to correct social norms. Or in an opposite way, refuse to convict someone of a crime because, it was none of your business to begin with.

junker46 · Aug 26, 2019

CESwartz07 said:
Unless that stranger is in imminent threat of death or serious bodily injury, stay out of it and be a good witness. Think about it too, you may not have all the information needed to make a life/death decision. Your responsibility is to your personal safety and the safety of your family. Everything else is “not my circus, not my monkeys”. A gun is not a badge or an excuse to involve yourself.

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True. But, that is a lot of second guessing. Are you going to query the parties involved to gather context? What about 'good Samaritan' laws (of which I don't know anything about), which apparently, require yourself to step in a situation?

junker46 · Aug 26, 2019

CESwartz07 said:
So your going to confront someone disciplining their child or dog with deadly force because you think it’s the “right thing”? That sounds like a good way to either get shot yourself or arrested. Based on your comments and low post count you are either a troll or terribly misinformed/uninformed.

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Where did I say with 'deadly force'. I am implying acting as a concerned citizen. I like the fact you trotted out the 'low post count' like it defines a person. I take it you are one of those people that have not experienced the real world. Get out and get a life.

John B. · Aug 26, 2019

Every now and then I'll have a "concerned citizen" call my office and tell me how one of my techs didn't use a turn signal or some other sort of minor traffic infraction. I thank them for their concern, and tell them I will handle it. Most of the time, that answer is not good enough for them... to which I say "Escambia County Sheriff's office is always hiring, if you want to fight crime, go sign up"...

I think that same response applies here.

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junker46 · Aug 26, 2019

John B. said:
Every now and then I'll have a "concerned citizen" call my office and tell me how one of my techs didn't use a turn signal or some other sort of minor traffic infraction. I thank them for their concern, and tell them I will handle it. Most of the time, that answer is not good enough for them... to which I say "Escambia County Sheriff's office is always hiring, if you want to fight crime, go sign up"...

I think that same response applies here.

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Perhaps. However, in the larger concept, again, is this is a loss for gun rights and, to a lesser extent, freedom of speech, in view of the emerging 'red flag laws'. Or as someone had said, 'two assholes colliding'.

M60Gunner · Aug 26, 2019

In ten years as a uniformed officer I drew my weapon only a handful of times and never had to pull the trigger thank God. In watching the video I couldn’t help but place myself in the guys shoes. Hurt, panicked, disoriented, and about to possibly die he makes a crucial error. He had no use of force training I am aware of to assist him in responding to a violent individual with 21 priors who was also on ecstasy. Like many of you I whole heartedly agree the shooter made a huge error in putting himself in the situation to begin with. Also like many of you I believe his demeanor, outlook and actions were inconsistent with best practices for concealed carry. Moreover, I believe he compounded these errors by not availing himself of his right to immediately shut his mouth and request legal representation. All pointless in the end and a tragedy for all concerned.

donr101395 · Aug 26, 2019

junker46 said:
Think about it: in today's political climate, unless you are direct physical attack, you are screwed. I mean, under fire or the knife going in or a dent in your skull from a bat. Looking at comments from other sites, some have postulated that he (the aggressor) was preparing for another assault. Anyway, it was clear from the onset that they were after this guy for political posturing.

So, what does all this mean? A cop from Alabama thinks it is going to set a precedence that pretty much screws any self defense shooting. That it shifts the burden (of intention?) from the state to the defense. And good luck with that.

The law in Florida is extremely clear on when deadly force is authorized. Shoving you to the ground doesn't rise to forcible felony or great bodily harm in this case. Basically two assholes crossed paths; one is dead the other wishes he were dead.

[FONT=&quot]A person is justified in using or threatening to use deadly force if he or she reasonably believes that using or threatening to use such force is necessary to prevent imminent death or great bodily harm to himself or herself or another or to prevent the imminent commission of a forcible felony. A person who uses or threatens to use deadly force in accordance with this subsection does not have a duty to retreat and has the right to stand his or her ground if the person using or threatening to use the deadly force is not engaged in a criminal activity and is in a place where he or she has a right to be.[/FONT]

fl57caveman · Aug 26, 2019

it all comes down to one thing;

everybody these days wants their ass kissed.....

black woman felt she was owed a close space, cuz there was no handicapped person there when she parked.

white older man wanted his ass kissed cuz he was in the right, and was carrying, & felt safe, why else does he give a black woman grief....damn, that was stupid, everyone knows if they don't cut your ass,
they will bitch you to death or call five others to stomp your ass

black boyfriend thought he should have his ass kissed cuz he was defending his woman(from a verbal exchange, stupid, but that is the norm now) & he was a big man..

john b had it right, walk by it, and he would be home now, and black man would be alive, and black woman would have a baby daddy around

so many levels of stupid here...

junker46 · Aug 26, 2019

donr101395 said:
The law in Florida is extremely clear on when deadly force is authorized. Shoving you to the ground doesn't rise to forcible felony or great bodily harm in this case. Basically two assholes crossed paths; one is dead the other wishes he were dead.

[FONT=&quot]A person is justified in using or threatening to use deadly force if he or she reasonably believes that using or threatening to use such force is necessary to prevent imminent death or great bodily harm to himself or herself or another or to prevent the imminent commission of a forcible felony. A person who uses or threatens to use deadly force in accordance with this subsection does not have a duty to retreat and has the right to stand his or her ground if the person using or threatening to use the deadly force is not engaged in a criminal activity and is in a place where he or she has a right to be.[/FONT]

In your 'legal' quote, I didn't see the phrase 'shoving', or any other particular scenario or action. What defines 'forcible felony' to you? Suppose you were shoved violently to the ground by one or more people? What would you think? Pause for a moment to assess the situation? Come up with guns a-blazing? Suppose your family was in close proximity when you were lovingly placed upon the earth? What happens when you pause and get your head kicked in? What happens when the assailant walks away while you were drawing-down?

donr101395 · Aug 26, 2019

junker46 said:
In your 'legal' quote, I didn't see the phrase 'shoving', or any other particular scenario or action. What defines 'forcible felony' to you? Suppose you were shoved violently to the ground by one or more people? What would you think? Pause for a moment to assess the situation? Come up with guns a-blazing? Suppose your family was in close proximity when you were lovingly placed upon the earth? What happens when you pause and get your head kicked in? What happens when the assailant walks away while you were drawing-down?

It's probably a good thing you don't carry anymore. If you would have taken a decent CCW class you would know that the statute also defines a forcible felony.
You seem to want a cookie cutter answer for a problem that isn't cookie cutter.
Before you decide to carry again, do yourself a favor and get some training because you're your own biggest liability.

776.08 Forcible felony.—“Forcible felony” means treason; murder; manslaughter; sexual battery; carjacking; home-invasion robbery; robbery; burglary; arson; kidnapping; aggravated assault; aggravated battery; aggravated stalking; aircraft piracy; unlawful throwing, placing, or discharging of a destructive device or bomb; and any other felony which involves the use or threat of physical force or violence against any individual.

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stage20 · Aug 26, 2019

Let's scale back a couple notches. Let's say the guy feared for his life. Pulled the gun. Says don't come closer. Black guy says whatever man and backs away. Gets in car and calls the law. Was pulling the weapon justified? I'd like training in this area. I've always been brought up if you pull a gun use it. Don't show it unless you are going to pull the trigger.

donr101395 · Aug 26, 2019

stage20 said:
Let's scale back a couple notches. Let's say the guy feared for his life. Pulled the gun. Says don't come closer. Black guy says whatever man and backs away. Gets in car and calls the law. Was pulling the weapon justified? I'd like training in this area. I've always been brought up if you pull a gun use it. Don't show it unless you are going to pull the trigger.

Simply shoving no, shoving and displaying a weapon yes. It's going to come back to what would a reasonable person do. In this case I'm sure that they determined a reasonable person wouldn't try to enforce parking standards he has no authority over. He initiated the confrontation. You don't get to initiate the confrontation and then claim victim status against an unarmed person. The law simply doesn't work that way.

junker46 · Aug 26, 2019

donr101395 said:
It's probably a good thing you don't carry anymore. If you would have taken a decent CCW class you would know that the statute also defines a forcible felony.
You seem to want a cookie cutter answer for a problem that isn't cookie cutter.
Before you decide to carry again, do yourself a favor and get some training because you're your own biggest liability.

776.08 Forcible felony.—“Forcible felony” means treason; murder; manslaughter; sexual battery; carjacking; home-invasion robbery; robbery; burglary; arson; kidnapping; aggravated assault; aggravated battery; aggravated stalking; aircraft piracy; unlawful throwing, placing, or discharging of a destructive device or bomb; and any other felony which involves the use or threat of physical force or violence against any individual.

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All you keyboard warriors like to be dismissive, and that is okay. Good that you 'copy-and-paste' a cookie cutter answer. So, no of those situations applied to that dingle berry down south? What is your definition if aggravated assault and/or battery? Go on, oh wise one

donr101395 · Aug 26, 2019

junker46 said:
All you keyboard warriors like to be dismissive, and that is okay. Good that you 'copy-and-paste' a cookie cutter answer. So, no of those situations applied to that dingle berry down south? What is your definition if aggravated assault and/or battery? Go on, oh wise one

I'll make it simple for you. You're a clueless wreck who has no business carrying a gun in public because you don't know the laws governing the use of it nor do you care to look them up and try to educate yourself. You would rather pontificate about what you think they should be without even knowing what they are. That is simply lazy and inexcusable. Keyboard warriors that's pretty rich coming from someone too stupid and lazy to even do the most basic research on the laws they don't know.

wildrider666 · Aug 26, 2019

I agree with OP. After reading his multiple post/comments and getting an understanding of his comprehension of the Laws and subordanant legal issues, along with his skewed perspectives: He (junker46), has no business carrying a concealed weapon. IMHO

junker46 · Aug 26, 2019

donr101395 said:
I'll make it simple for you. You're a clueless wreck who has no business carrying a gun in public because you don't know the laws governing the use of it nor do you care to look them up and try to educate yourself. You would rather pontificate about what you think they should be without even knowing what they are. That is simply lazy and inexcusable. Keyboard warriors that's pretty rich coming from someone too stupid and lazy to even do the most basic research on the laws they don't know.

How do you know I haven't? How do you know I haven't trained in the 'super-seal-sniper-delta-whatever' school that most keyboard warriors, perhaps, like you, do? I'm not seeking validation of my beliefs, only wonder why some losers believe theirs. it's patently from your 'cut-and-paste' ideology that you don't know nor do you have any. You could have simply answered the question.

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